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Oh no! ATA Supersport


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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

What he is saying is ,Ive got one that I lend out to people to abuse all day long, a job that it does 'ok'
But dont you buy a new one , because a 10 year Miroku for the same money is a far better option, because I said so.

That’s precisely how I read it as well. 

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Actually my knowledge comes from what i have witnessed first hand at my club over my 15 years there and my time pre working there, what is your experience? our club uses mk70 miroku's as loan guns, they are kept for 3 years and will shoot somewhere in the area of 60,000 conservative figure in 3 years,  serviced and sold on, the only issues in that time have been lower firing pins pitting on small number of guns and a cracked stock from being dropped, we purchased 2 ata's in 2019 and both had problems, where moved on early due to ejector wear and gouging in receiever/fore end mating faces , if you get offended by someone stating facts thats your issue. There are massive differences in steel quality and geometry- hence why so many mirokus etc last so long, if you have an ata thats fine they are a decent option for someone who needs to buy a warranty but there is a big gap,  if you believe they are better than a miroku of any age in good condition you are showing what little knowledge you have of these guns,  and actually no my ata is my rain gun/ or gun i will allow a friend to use with respect on a game/trap day. Anybody who actually knows miroku will laugh at you saying a new budget gun with warranty is a safer bet, 600£ gun post warranty you have sears fail or the likes, then you will understand why i said the gun is a replacement item

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5 hours ago, Ausgunner said:

 Anybody who actually knows miroku will laugh at you saying a new budget gun with warranty is a safer bet, 600£ gun post warranty you have sears fail or the likes, then you will understand why i said the gun is a replacement item

Wow, that degenerated to personal insults very quickly, well done👍
 

I will have a go at laughing at myself later on today as I own an MK70, Mk38 Teague, 2 ATA’s and 2 Koffs and report back.

 

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7 minutes ago, Taileron said:

Wow, that degenerated to personal insults very quickly, well done👍
 

I will have a go at laughing at myself later on today as I own an MK70, Mk38 Teague, 2 ATA’s and 2 Koffs and report back.

 

I was replying to the other person who was basically being offended by basic engineering and steel grade comaparisons in regards to longevity of mating faces etc between a miroku and an ata. But thanks

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On 04/04/2021 at 02:49, Ausgunner said:

what is your experience?

Lets just say being involved in the running of a clay club for more years than you is PART of my experience.
Servicing and repairing shotguns and sec 1 firearms is another part.

On 04/04/2021 at 02:49, Ausgunner said:

if you get offended by someone stating facts thats your issue.

Im no where near offended, and you are not stating facts, you are stating YOUR opinion , based on YOUR experience of how many was it , 2 guns ?

On 04/04/2021 at 02:49, Ausgunner said:

our club uses mk70 miroku's as loan guns, they are kept for 3 years and will shoot somewhere in the area of 60,000 conservative figure in 3 years,  serviced and sold on,

Hang on a cotton picking minute :lol: You said they lasted a LIFETIME ?!
So why do you get rid of them after 3 years ?

So either , in YOUR opinion, they have reached the end of their 'reliable' life after 3 years / 60,000 carts, so you sell them to some poor mug after a quick oil..
OR... You get rid of them for no apparent reason, even though theres what , a good 50 years of use left in them ?

Which is it ?

On 04/04/2021 at 02:49, Ausgunner said:

if you believe they are better than a miroku of any age in good condition you are showing what little knowledge you have of these guns

Never said one was better than the other, but 3 years warranty on a brand new gun is what it is , 3 years peace of mind.

On 04/04/2021 at 02:49, Ausgunner said:

 Anybody who actually knows miroku will laugh at you saying a new budget gun with warranty is a safer bet

That really makes no sense, of course its a safer bet, for 3 actual years !
And guess what ? Ive had 2 silver pigs , brand new , and both were back at the shop with a couple of months, for failure to fire second barrel, £1600 and 1700 , yes they were sorted under warranty, but does that show good QC ?
Ive also got a cheapo ATA , it does 7-8000 carts a year, and Ive had it 4 years, never been a problem, half a dozen at the club , early ones had a trigger issue, later ones , no issue, despite the 'low quality metal' you seem so keen to point out , with absolutely no evidence or qualification.

I deal with a lot of gunshops, and most of them sell ATA shotguns, because they sell well , and the breakdown rate is low.
They are a good value gun, if they were not , people wouldnt buy them, beginners or otherwise.

Its nothing more than gun snobbery, trying to intimate 'my guns better than yours' because it was more expensive.
When most of the time that isnt even true. 

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On 06/04/2021 at 22:11, Rewulf said:

Lets just say being involved in the running of a clay club for more years than you is PART of my experience.
Servicing and repairing shotguns and sec 1 firearms is another part.

Im no where near offended, and you are not stating facts, you are stating YOUR opinion , based on YOUR experience of how many was it , 2 guns ?

Hang on a cotton picking minute  You said they lasted a LIFETIME ?!
So why do you get rid of them after 3 years ?

So either , in YOUR opinion, they have reached the end of their 'reliable' life after 3 years / 60,000 carts, so you sell them to some poor mug after a quick oil..
OR... You get rid of them for no apparent reason, even though theres what , a good 50 years of use left in them ?

Which is it ?

Never said one was better than the other, but 3 years warranty on a brand new gun is what it is , 3 years peace of mind.

That really makes no sense, of course its a safer bet, for 3 actual years !
And guess what ? Ive had 2 silver pigs , brand new , and both were back at the shop with a couple of months, for failure to fire second barrel, £1600 and 1700 , yes they were sorted under warranty, but does that show good QC ?
Ive also got a cheapo ATA , it does 7-8000 carts a year, and Ive had it 4 years, never been a problem, half a dozen at the club , early ones had a trigger issue, later ones , no issue, despite the 'low quality metal' you seem so keen to point out , with absolutely no evidence or qualification.

I deal with a lot of gunshops, and most of them sell ATA shotguns, because they sell well , and the breakdown rate is low.
They are a good value gun, if they were not , people wouldnt buy them, beginners or otherwise.

Its nothing more than gun snobbery, trying to intimate 'my guns better than yours' because it was more expensive.
When most of the time that isnt even true. 

Well for starters all of my personal guns cost around the same money, so show me where i said my multi thousand dollar gun is better than anything else? 

And for your information my father is an aerospace engineer who knows a little more about metallurgy than you and when it comes to opininons like yours over facts on material qualities i'll take facts everyday of the week, 

We replace the mk70s every 3 years as we have a contract with our firearms supplier to do so, we support their business by doing so of that is ok with you???  i know of 15 guns that have been sold on and have never had an issue whatsoever, 

 

There you have it you just admitted the major influence is a nice warranty of comfort zone. I won't disagree the 686 series has gone backwards hence why i said they are overpriced, 

If it offends you personally because you have an ata that people disagree that for the money it is a better buy due to the only fact it has a longer warranty over a better made gun that is your issue.

I own one, i like it for what it is , they are decent value 100%  but it isn't snobbery to say a gun is made to a higher standard when it is, its simply pointing out there are other options than having to only go for a new cheap gun if you are entering the market with that money, amd more people need to know that than just being told no buy new cheap as uou have a warranty for longer. Plus i support local businesses more than importing companies.

 

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6 hours ago, Ausgunner said:

Well for starters all of my personal guns cost around the same money, so show me where i said my multi thousand dollar gun is better than anything else? Show me where I said YOUR gun did ?

And for your information my father is an aerospace engineer who knows a little more about metallurgy than you and when it comes to opininons like yours over facts on material qualities i'll take facts everyday of the week, 

No doubt pops did an in depth chemical analysis of all materials used, compared them to a Miroku, and proclaimed that the ATA would last exactly 3 years before failing, whilst the Mk70 would easily out live his finest son ?

We replace the mk70s every 3 years as we have a contract with our firearms supplier to do so, we support their business by doing so of that is ok with you???  i know of 15 guns that have been sold on and have never had an issue whatsoever, 

Of course you do .

 

There you have it you just admitted the major influence is a nice warranty of comfort zone. I won't disagree the 686 series has gone backwards hence why i said they are overpriced, 

If it offends you personally because you have an ata that people disagree that for the money it is a better buy due to the only fact it has a longer warranty over a better made gun that is your issue.

Again , offended? 

I own one, i like it for what it is , they are decent value 100%  but it isn't snobbery to say a gun is made to a higher standard when it is, its simply pointing out there are other options than having to only go for a new cheap gun if you are entering the market with that money, amd more people need to know that than just being told no buy new cheap as uou have a warranty for longer. Plus i support local businesses more than importing companies.

Yes , but how long have you had it ?

 

You said they only last the warranty period ?🤣

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

 

Its actually quite easy to grade steel you should do some research rather than flying off your hot little seat because you are offended that lesser quality steels with harsher wear patterns due to tolerances means lesser lifespan clap clap basics of mechanical lifespans,

And yes i do know of the guns we pass on as they are mostly bought by people who become members, i have worked here for a long time see a lot of guns come and go.

They are built to last their warranty as in they are not overengineered like lots of newage things- you take things so literal. What do you think i meant oh this here gun will last exactly 5 years and 1 day , you just sound so hurt that your ata is not seen as quality to me and a lot of other people who know these guns well as say a miroku, It isn't sorry, its an ok gun for the money, there are other options, you just can't accept that , good luck to you, enjoy your ata as i will mine. And i have had it 2.5years has done maybe 800cartidges at a guess, and yes i have had an issue an ejector overode the cartidge from early on, the ejector was splayed they replaced it over a month. Best wishes 

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On 11/04/2021 at 09:37, Ausgunner said:

Its actually quite easy to grade steel you should do some research rather than flying off your hot little seat because you are offended that lesser quality steels with harsher wear patterns due to tolerances means lesser lifespan clap clap basics of mechanical lifespans,

And yes i do know of the guns we pass on as they are mostly bought by people who become members, i have worked here for a long time see a lot of guns come and go.

They are built to last their warranty as in they are not overengineered like lots of newage things- you take things so literal. What do you think i meant oh this here gun will last exactly 5 years and 1 day , you just sound so hurt that your ata is not seen as quality to me and a lot of other people who know these guns well as say a miroku, It isn't sorry, its an ok gun for the money, there are other options, you just can't accept that , good luck to you, enjoy your ata as i will mine. And i have had it 2.5years has done maybe 800cartidges at a guess, and yes i have had an issue an ejector overode the cartidge from early on, the ejector was splayed they replaced it over a month. Best wishes 

OK , I give in , you know far more than I :lol:

Debating with someone who constantly contradicts themselves, with incessant backtracking, is a waste of time.

Ill go and err.. 'enjoy' my ATA.

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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

OK , I give in , you know far more than I 

Debating with someone who constantly contradicts themselves, with incessant backtracking, is a waste of time.

Ill go and err.. 'enjoy' my ATA.

Don't forget you MUST sell it before it reaches the end of its lifetime though!:w00t:

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6 hours ago, Rewulf said:

OK , I give in , you know far more than I 

Debating with someone who constantly contradicts themselves, with incessant backtracking, is a waste of time.

Ill go and err.. 'enjoy' my ATA.

You can’t possibly do that! It’s an inferior quality, badly made piece of tat that will literally drop to bits the moment the warranty expires....so I’m told.

I went out this very morning with my pal and did 300, 150 with the Mk38 and another 150 with my ATA. I missed all with the ATA as I was wearing a balaclava whilst shooting it out of fear of embarrassment...... oh wait a minute I didn’t do that.
 

I shot 150 with it and had exactly the same hit rate as with my Mk38. It didn’t drop to bits in my hands, it did however get extremely hot and performed just as well as my Mk38 which cost three times the price.

Lesson of today was watching the old gent, with a beat up remmy wingmaster shoot 50/50, it’s not the nail, it’s the hammer behind it that the most important.

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On 11/04/2021 at 08:36, Rewulf said:

And for your information my father is an aerospace engineer who knows a little more about metallurgy than you and when it comes to opininons like yours over facts on material qualities i'll take facts everyday of the week, 

The first thing your father would've told you, is that they don't use steel in aircraft where they can possibly avoid it!

Secondly, he would have said that Aerospace is unique in that there are effectively no material concessions; I.e. the material doesn't meet a certain part of the spec, it's not used, end of.  The same is not true in manufactured consumer durables....

Another thing he might have mentioned, is that the material can be the highest spec you like going in, unless it's machined and treated properly, and you document it, it will not give you the properties you desire in the finished product.

What I'm getting round to asking is: Perhaps you could share just what problem a forged action is trying to solve.  "It's stronger" isn't the engineer's answer.  How is it stronger?  And so what?

Forgings need very careful process control.  Any ejiot can forge something expensive, once.  But to productionise it, and at a cost that Beretta etc are willing to pay, takes a lot of knowledge.

Therefore, before you do that, you need to understand clearly what is driving the desire to do so.

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