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Scully

Seeing a pair.

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How does this work? I'm sometimes asked if I want to see a pair once in the stand, but if I've already watched someone else shoot it then I decline. 

In a competition what are the rules for this? Does the first shooter in a squad get to see a pair and that's it for the squad, or can everyone insist on seeing a pair? 

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No every person will get the opportunity to see a pair in a comp. I usually watch the group in front as I shoot a non profit club and it saves clays. If I don't know what's going on I look for the traps see what angle the it's set at and go straight off. Usually do better on the blind pair than when u k ow what's going to happen. 

Good luck if ur in a comp

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1 minute ago, Squinting shot said:

No every person will get the opportunity to see a pair in a comp. I usually watch the group in front as I shoot a non profit club and it saves clays. If I don't know what's going on I look for the traps see what angle the it's set at and go straight off. Usually do better on the blind pair than when u k ow what's going to happen. 

Good luck if ur in a comp

Thankyou. Will report back when it's done. 👍

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If squaded the first person to shoot gets to see a pair. If it's not squaded and the stand is empty when you arrive at it 

you can see a pair.

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As above. If there are people shooting when you arrive at the stand it's your reponsibility to observe the targets. Same if you're with an informal squad and the stands have refs in place. If you're in a formal squad with a ref then the 1st person up can see a pair. (You're allowed to see 2 pairs if it's a simo pair stand).

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As Westward says. You have to look and watch if you arive at the stand and people are shooting. You are not entitled to see a pair.

If you turn up to a stand and it's empty you can ask to see a pair.

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Posted (edited)
On 17/05/2019 at 20:34, Squinting shot said:

No every person will get the opportunity to see a pair in a comp. I usually watch the group in front as I shoot a non profit club and it saves clays. If I don't know what's going on I look for the traps see what angle the it's set at and go straight off. Usually do better on the blind pair than when u k ow what's going to happen. 

Good luck if ur in a comp

No they won’t you get to see a pair if you’ve not seen any shot at if someone is shooting and your scratching you backside trying to find a choke etc  unlucky you should have been watching.  The ref can and they often are slack on this.  

Sim pair you can see twice if you’ve not seen them shot at. 

Edited by welshwarrior

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On 17/05/2019 at 20:34, Squinting shot said:

No every person will get the opportunity to see a pair in a comp. I usually watch the group in front as I shoot a non profit club and it saves clays. If I don't know what's going on I look for the traps see what angle the it's set at and go straight off. Usually do better on the blind pair than when u k ow what's going to happen. 

Good luck if ur in a comp

No, every person will NOT get the chance to see a pair unless nobody is shooting, then the first person in a group will be offered a pair. As Scully alluded to, you do not have to see a pair and as WW stated if you are there and can't be bothered to watch then you do not get to look at a pair.

It is all done to make a shoot run smoothly.

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The flip side of this is I’ve been to several cardmate grounds lately and due to no birds we’ve not had enough credit to be able to see a pair and still have enough for the round. I’m sure you could go back to the clubhouse if needed to get a few added but it’s often a long way from the stands.

420 on a card for four to shoot hundreds leaves not a lot of slack!

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Many grounds will have signs up that tell you where the clay is coming from and what type of target it will be.

Sometimes I find shooting on instinct better than knowing exactly where the clay will come from and how it travels. I think watching people shoot before you can be more off putting. 

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22 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

Many grounds will have signs up that tell you where the clay is coming from and what type of target it will be.

Sometimes I find shooting on instinct better than knowing exactly where the clay will come from and how it travels. I think watching people shoot before you can be more off putting. 

So how does that work for the second pair and all the subsequent pairs?

Do you only shoot one pair at each stand?

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1 hour ago, The Mighty Prawn said:

The flip side of this is I’ve been to several cardmate grounds lately and due to no birds we’ve not had enough credit to be able to see a pair and still have enough for the round. I’m sure you could go back to the clubhouse if needed to get a few added but it’s often a long way from the stands.

420 on a card for four to shoot hundreds leaves not a lot of slack!

Agreed. When shooting at Westlands or Crabtree we never ‘see’ a pair for this very reason; I was thinking more of comps. 

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1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So how does that work for the second pair and all the subsequent pairs?

Do you only shoot one pair at each stand?

 No, but he only hits the first pair and misses the rest. 😂😂😂

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Mighty prawn if we are shooting we all take turns going first. Then rotate to the back, this way no one person is going first or last all the time.

If two if us are shooting we just take turns going first. If it's a bit tricky and the other shooter is a novice I will go first to give them a better chance 

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21 minutes ago, figgy said:

Mighty prawn if we are shooting we all take turns going first. Then rotate to the back, this way no one person is going first or last all the time.

If two if us are shooting we just take turns going first. If it's a bit tricky and the other shooter is a novice I will go first to give them a better chance 

Same here, but when shooting a Registered All Round Competition, first man is first all the way through!

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Group of 4, rotating first place, first gun see's a pair regardless of layout. 

Last gun to arrive shoots first stand first, arrival order is reverse position order. 

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On 19/05/2019 at 17:17, TIGHTCHOKE said:

So how does that work for the second pair and all the subsequent pairs?

Do you only shoot one pair at each stand?

As someone replied lower down I usually hit the first pair and miss the rest! Ha.

Seriously what I meant was that paying too much attention to those shooting ahead can lead to overthinking. 

I've been at stands where some shooters I know who are experienced will be missing a particular target so I start thinking "there's no way I'm going to hit that," and yet sometimes I hit them all. 

I've stepped into stands and called pull but have been facing the wrong way (thinking the targets are the other way round) and at the last second I've realised and turned and hit it and then hit the second. Then on the next pair I might miss them both (or not) but it's that instinct and overthinking I think can get in the way. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Shadowchaser said:

As someone replied lower down I usually hit the first pair and miss the rest! Ha.

Seriously what I meant was that paying too much attention to those shooting ahead can lead to overthinking. 

I've been at stands where some shooters I know who are experienced will be missing a particular target so I start thinking "there's no way I'm going to hit that," and yet sometimes I hit them all. 

I've stepped into stands and called pull but have been facing the wrong way (thinking the targets are the other way round) and at the last second I've realised and turned and hit it and then hit the second. Then on the next pair I might miss them both (or not) but it's that instinct and overthinking I think can get in the way. 

It would appear so!

Do you think your inconsistency is down to lack of experience?

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11 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

overthinking I think can get in the way

In my view ... 100% right.

So much of being successful in shooting is about detaching your conscious mind and relying on your subconscious to get the gun in the right place.

1st pair comes out ... you rely on your instincts and smoke them ... next pair, your conscious mind steps in, and tries to repeat it, resulting in looking at the gap rather than just the bird, and a miss.

It takes experience and practice to learn to trust your instincts .. but it's the route to getting better.

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In a competition you are entitled to see a pair before commencing (if you wish). It puts everyone on an even footing then and nobody can claim unfair advantage or disadvantage.

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14 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

In a competition you are entitled to see a pair before commencing (if you wish). It puts everyone on an even footing then and nobody can claim unfair advantage or disadvantage.

Only if you have not had the opportunity to see a pair being shot by a previous shooter.  So if you arrive at a stand and there are already people shooting it then pay attention as the ref’ is not obliged to throw a pair to see just because you’re in a different squad.

Lots of shooters ask all the same of course and some refs are generous.

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26 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

In a competition you are entitled to see a pair before commencing (if you wish). It puts everyone on an even footing then and nobody can claim unfair advantage or disadvantage.

grrclark is correct. You are not entitled to see them. The ref can and often will refuse a request to see the pair if you've had an adequate opportunity to see them being shot. As a ref myself and also a shooter I will be lenient sometimes if there's a benefit in seeing the whole flight of the clay instead of just the up to the breakpoint. But that's where there's a difference between a ref and a scorer.

Having said that I've seen numerous occasions where shooters have requested to see the pair and a young inexperienced scorer just goes along with it.

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53 minutes ago, Westward said:

 As a ref myself and also a shooter I will be lenient sometimes if there's a benefit in seeing the whole flight of the clay instead of just the up to the breakpoint. But that's where there's a difference between a ref and a scorer.

It is amazing how many people don’t watch a target to the end of it’s flight.

There is sometimes nothing worse than walking to a stand and being behind someone who chops the target off straight out the trap.  Shooting it way too early for me and I have not a clue what it does after.

In that case I would ask the ref to see a pair and explain why, some say yes and some don’t.  If they say no then I bite my tongue as that’s the rules.

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Is it not true Graham that if the observation point is away or restricted access or restricted view you should be shown a pair from the cage?

 

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If you cannot clearly see the pair then yes you should be able to view a pair in the cage.

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