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mick miller

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Packam the rope maker, he'll soon be hanging by his own doings.

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Perhaps NE will stop messing around, define "pest" species and issue licences to control them, until such time as they become "rare" and need protection. (which is probably never)

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2 hours ago, mick miller said:

I only wish our organisations, with all their resources, were as quick and as determined as those who oppose us. 

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15 hours ago, mick miller said:

Can someone please explain to me why, if Michael Gove has revoked NE’s powers to issue licences, WJ are issuing yet another legal challenge to NE?  Surely NE’s response is “Our powers have been revoked, please contact DEFRA, don’t let the door hit your backsides on the way out”.

Obviously I understand that this is WJ’s modus operandi, i.e. drag everyone to court repeatedly and inflict death by a thousand cuts, but it does seem a spectacularly pointless challenge, given that there will be a whole slew of new licences courtesy of DEFRA soon (stop sniggering at the back there).

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3 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Can someone please explain to me why, if Michael Gove has revoked NE’s powers to issue licences, WJ are issuing yet another legal challenge to NE?  Surely NE’s response is “Our powers have been revoked, please contact DEFRA, don’t let the door hit your backsides on the way out”.

Obviously I understand that this is WJ’s modus operandi, i.e. drag everyone to court repeatedly and inflict death by a thousand cuts, but it does seem a spectacularly pointless challenge, given that there will be a whole slew of new licences courtesy of DEFRA soon (stop sniggering at the back there).

It would not surprize me that when WJ  gets a reply from Defra by the 21st June concerning the  licence for crows to protect pheasants that they will  win. A organization  that has only been going for a short  while has more clout than all the shooting organisations put together ,it is a sad day for  shooting 

Feltwad

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22 hours ago, mick miller said:

So they are challenging the new GL31 pigeons, GL28 Canada Geese and GL26 Carrion Crows, strange they are not challenging the individual licence 19-03

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Another interesting thing about this challenge and the response from Avery is the wording below, I wonder if the RSPB agrees with this as they do a fair amount of pest control on their reserves of the birds mentioned below.

We also repeat our call to Defra not to issue any general licences to allow the lethal control of Jay, Jackdaw, Rook or Magpie for the purpose of protecting wild birds.

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A couple of points that jump out here. 

One, they're pulling Gove back in by naming him as an interested party. That's good in my eyes as he's tried to snake out of the situation already, having previously given his word(!) to personally sort this out. I imagine he's thrilled...

Secondly, I really think NE should stand their ground and run this to a final hearing. It can't be any more expensive than all the extra work and manpower that's already gone into this situation in the past 6 weeks. What is more, NE won the judicial review over hen harrier brood management, so why are they running scared now? Leigh Day aren't a particularly strong or impressive law firm, even in this niche field. Just google the firm and 'Iraq" for a flavour of where they tried to make some coin previously before getting on board this particular cash cow. If NE threw some money into this situation and got some outside advice from a top law firm (I'm not sure who they've used to date) and a decent QC, I'm confident they'd come up with a position to wipe the floor with Wild Justice and Leigh Day.

Seems a very odd situation all round to me. 

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29 minutes ago, Novice said:

Seems a very odd situation all round to me.

Not when the head of NE is "best mates" with the WJ protagonists.

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Where are BASC in this with their £8M legal fighting fund. (perhaps using it to keep recruiting political officers and suchlike LOL- have you noticed how big the BASC headcount has risen since Ali and Now BELL ?

WJ reportedly crowdfunded the original challenge for £37 K !

The chair of BASC is a QC *** who specialises in Firearms Law and related matters (maybe not specifically wildlife law) , BUT....surely he knows someone within his peer group who can give  decent legal advice.

It's like a premier league team being given the run around by a the local pub team on a Sunday morning after 20 pints each the night before🙄

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2 minutes ago, Gameking said:

t's like a premier league team being given the run around by a the local pub team on a Sunday morning after 20 pints each the night before

Easy when the "Officials" are pub team members,

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10 minutes ago, Gameking said:

Where are BASC in this with their £8M legal fighting fund. (perhaps using it to keep recruiting political officers and suchlike LOL- have you noticed how big the BASC headcount has risen since Ali and Now BELL ?

WJ reportedly crowdfunded the original challenge for £37 K !

The chair of BASC is a QC *** who specialises in Firearms Law and related matters (maybe not specifically wildlife law) , BUT....surely he knows someone within his peer group who can give  decent legal advice.

It's like a premier league team being given the run around by a the local pub team on a Sunday morning after 20 pints each the night before🙄

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.....unless we complain enmasse then nothing will be done. If we ALL contact our organisations and tell them that unless they commit to react effectively within six months we will not renew membership. Further, if this reaction doesn’t have the desired effect then it will show our organisations up for what I have a suspicion they really are, which is toothless regarding the things which matter, and if that is indeed the case then there’s no point being a member anyhow.

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It’s all very well for the shooting fraternity to express these points amongst themselves - which is of course important. However, we need to focus our energy on bringing these well reasoned arguments to broader attention: MPs and BBC etc. I know that a small number have done this, but if every single person with a firearm (including air rifle enthusiasts) emailed decision makers, press and media etc. this would hugely strengthen our case. Let’s not leave this entirely to the likes of BASC and the Countryside Alliance. MPs more than ever, in the current political climate, will place a high value on each and every vote. If all MPs received a number of emails, or even better appointments at their office, this would have a significant impact. Re the BBC - they need to feel the pressure of people exploring the online alternatives to their license funded enterprise?!

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The BBC have not responded to any of my enquiries and my MP and AM are both labour diehards and only give token replies saying they are passing my questions to the relevent department,and thanking me for getting in touch.Then to add insult to injury send me Labour  influenced e mails.

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Hello Graylag,

Sorry to hear that. When I complained to the BBC, I ticked a box which prompted a reply. I got a reply within their guaranteed response time. I have done this a few times now. Their online system is pretty good. I also sent various (well reasoned - not ranty) emails to the RSPB and received responses. I can’t offer any advice I’m afraid about Labour MPs - other than actually booking a face-to-face appointment. I suppose I was lucky in that my Conservative MP was fairly receptive. Good for you though - for taking the time to fight back!! I’m astonished at how many don’t. 

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2 hours ago, Fellside said:

It’s all very well for the shooting fraternity to express these points amongst themselves - which is of course important. However, we need to focus our energy on bringing these well reasoned arguments to broader attention: MPs and BBC etc. I know that a small number have done this, but if every single person with a firearm (including air rifle enthusiasts) emailed decision makers, press and media etc. this would hugely strengthen our case. Let’s not leave this entirely to the likes of BASC and the Countryside Alliance. MPs more than ever, in the current political climate, will place a high value on each and every vote. If all MPs received a number of emails, or even better appointments at their office, this would have a significant impact. Re the BBC - they need to feel the pressure of people exploring the online alternatives to their license funded enterprise?!

Good luck with that. 👍

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20 hours ago, old'un said:

Another interesting thing about this challenge and the response from Avery is the wording below, I wonder if the RSPB agrees with this as they do a fair amount of pest control on their reserves of the birds mentioned below.

We also repeat our call to Defra not to issue any general licences to allow the lethal control of Jay, Jackdaw, Rook or Magpie for the purpose of protecting wild birds.

RSPB are saying they only control crows, which is one of the things WJ are holding up as saying the others don't need to be controlled under a general licence.

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