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Restocked Shotgun - Does it affect the value?


CaptC
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Here's the scenario - 1891 Purdey SLE, assisted opener etc etc. Rebarreled in the 60's (30" x 2 1/2" chambers) and restocked in the 70's also with a new forend. All work done "in house" by Purdey. The gun has all it's history from day one and owned by the same family for eighty years. Does the "new" stock and forend reduce the value - thoughts please?

Oh, forgot - the original case was stupidly sold a while ago so no case!

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Any changes will affect value in the eyes of the purist but if done by Purdey it will be fine in general terms. A Purdey is a Purdey when all is said and done.Even top names are struggling to sell at present and prices have not been maintained. I would keep an eye out for a period case.

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Thank you - Luckily I'm not a purist - just a question of persuading the Memsahib then negotiating! The latter is easier!

1 minute ago, Scully said:

Loads of cases in Holts online catalogue. 

Yes, I had a look - thank you. The little label with the load and chamber lengths would be a problem?

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Almost the same as my thinking although all the work (new barrels, stock and forend) were all done by Purdey so apart from the original action everything else has been replaced - is this to the detriment of value? 

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This is getting better with each post - apparently there is, yet to be seen, the history of the gun and the reason(s) it was restocked. I can understand the need for new barrels by the makers (sleeving reducing the value considerably) but a stock then a forend? 

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A gun is worth what someone will pay for it.  Generally, new barrels, properly done and restocked (again properly done) will give a gun to original quality ....... but not an original gun.

The real factors in determining price (in my view) are present condition, wood quality and figure in replacement stock (you sometimes see nice guns restocked with VERY plain wood), and simply whether it fits the prospective buyer with no (or little) alteration.

For example - an original untouched Purdey with a very short plain stock and near out of proof with thin barrel walls and loose has little value.  Short barrels are also very 'out of fashion'.

A rebarrelled and restocked Purdey - properly done, well in proof, tight and with a highly figured and reasonably long stock with 28, 29 or 30" barrels will command a good price even though not original.

One thing to note is that a self opening Purdey (Beesleys patent) require firmer pressure to close than a non self opener.  However - this needs to be a smooth even closure pressure.  There are guns around that have been 'messed with by incompetents' that are not smooth and feel what can best be described as 'stiff and lumpy'.  A best English gun should feel 'perfect'.

I spent some time a few years ago looking to buy a Henry Atkin 'Spring Opener' model.  This uses an almost identical action to a Purdey.  I handled a number - and some Purdeys ......... and suffice it to say there is a world of difference between a really nice gun properly set up (even if a bit shabby) compared to some of the stuff with high price tickets on dealers racks.  Handle as many as you can, because whilst a well set up example is a joy to use, a poor bodged example may be very expensive to get right.  Also - avoid English single triggers which have 'issues'.  The parts are usually specially custom made.  It may need 'just a tweak', or it may need new parts where the innards have been bodged - and that needs deep pockets to get corrected.  Bear in mind with the Beesley/Purdey spring opening system you cannot easily detect looseness without removing the locks (because the main spring tensioning cams take up detectable looseness).

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Thank you for such excellent advice!

The gun has been maintained and serviced by Purdey since 1935. Quite agree re the woodwork but this one has good matching timber all completed by Purdey.

Thank you again

 

 

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Look at this way a gun , any gun with a bad ,worn or damaged stock is less desirable than one with a good stock . It may be that it was originally stocked to specific requirements or that it has bee shortened . Many older guns had comparatively short stocks that do not suit today's needs .

Providing the work has been well executed and the wood is of a quality that compliments , I have seen nice guns stocked in the 60's with lesser wood  that looks awful ,  then it should not affect any resale value and will probably enhance it .

What I do not like is to see a period gun stocked up with wood that is far "fancier " than the maker would have originally used .Purdey used wood that was straight in the grain and very rarely do you see a turn of the century [thats 1900] gun with highly figured wood as they went for strength and weight  ,so many older guns do not have what we now call exhibition wood .

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Thanks Gunman,

The present (new) stock has good figuring but as it was stocked by Purdey it's not "brash" - Tomorrow I'm hoping to find out why the gun was restocked as all the work that has been completed on the gun is in Purdey's (and the present owner's) archives. 

 

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Just a point whilst on the subject .

What can let a gun down when its been restocked is if the forend wood is worn or non matching .I always made a point of trying to lighten a forend wood and re -checker it to match as much as possible if it was not being re-forended  .It is often the little things that for the sake of a few pounds can make all the difference . A couple of new screws  or having the screw heads re-engraved parts re-blacked and the gun stripped and cleaned properly  for instance .

I understand that in a lot of times it all comes down to price but again I always tried to quote  so that these things were included rather than added on and the customer aware of exactly what the quote entailed an what he could expect .Then it was up to him to have the extra work done or not .

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I would imagine that the sock fitter at Purdey's matched the new forend? I have seen a lot of guns that mismatch as per Gunman's post. All to save a few pounds.

My Browning had a grade 5 stock fitted before I bought it but a mismatching light forend. Managed to  luckily find a forend that was exactly the same colour and grain which I refinished myself but now have different serial numbers!

One picture taken outside but there is no difference in colour

DSC_0005_(5).JPG

DSC_0006 (5).JPG

Edited by CaptC
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I’ve seen Purdey’s have new barrels made as the owner wanted 30” not 26” etc.   Also guns restocked as the original stock was of odd dimensions that belonged to a relative so the new owner had a new stock made.  Often when done by Purdey it’s been as good or better than the original and could be passed off as original by an unscrupulous seller.  

My view if it is done well and will shot well for the buyer no harm is done to the value. 

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For me It's all about sympathetic restoration/repair, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" As gunman says older guns, even higher quality ones, were originally stocked with quite plain wood, as it was stronger, highly figured Exhibition grade wood often makes an old gun look gaudy!

If the work was done in-house by Purdey on a Purdey gun, I imagine it will be expensive, but done sympathetically!

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

For me It's all about sympathetic restoration/repair, "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" As gunman says older guns, even higher quality ones, were originally stocked with quite plain wood, as it was stronger, highly figured Exhibition grade wood often makes an old gun look gaudy!

If the work was done in-house by Purdey on a Purdey gun, I imagine it will be expensive, but done sympathetically!

 

 

 

Absolutely agree with welshwarrior - The gun was restocked because the owner's father fell over and broke it in half. Purdey restocked the gun and a year or so later replaced the forend so apart from the actual action the gun has had everything replaced. Another conundrum is that it is one of a pair. The pair having been split in the 60's to seperate members of the family. The double case went with No 2 gun. Does "one of a pair" have the same value as a single gun? 

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To my understanding the single of a pair is worth less than a standard single gun.

Also the number one gun is more desirable, I can't think why as most pairs owner I've seen use number one more than the number two gun. So the second of a pair is usually in better condition. 

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Does it really matter what it’s value is? As it stands it’s a classic action with new wood and is worth just what someone wants to pay for it. If it looks good and is in good working order, then it’s worth what it’s worth. 

I’d just enjoy using it and not even tell anyone; would they know if you didn’t tell them? 

 

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I think to sum up the Cornish expression "Matter do it?" come to mind. Personal choice but if I had either No 1 or  No 2 my thoughts would constantly be "Where's the other one?" And knowing there was no chance of ever finding it.

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On 08/06/2019 at 19:56, Harnser said:

Sounds like it only has the original action . Although  done by Purdy not really a original gun . If a lesser make may be described as a triggers broom .

harnser

If you separate the barrels from the action they are worth very little on their own. Likewise, if you remove the stock from the gun the stock is not worth much.          The action, however, is the heart of the gun and the action from a Purdey or other “best”  gun is always worth  a considerable sum as another gun can be built around it.

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