Farmboy91 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 I can't imagine AAA's throw much of a pattern after 20 odd yards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: So AAA size is ok, but not bigger. That's what the Act says! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dekers said: That's what the Act says! the only other choice is solid slug but you would need an FAC for that. 2 hours ago, Farmboy91 said: I can't imagine AAA's throw much of a pattern after 20 odd yards You'd be surprised. I have to go up to heavy three inch cartridges to improve the pellet count but they are pretty good. They far outperform SSG's and 00buck in terms of pattern density. That is likely why they were chosen as the only approved shot size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 12 minutes ago, ClemFandango said: the only other choice is solid slug but you would need an FAC for that. You'd be surprised. I have to go up to heavy three inch cartridges to improve the pellet count but they are pretty good. They far outperform SSG's and 00buck in terms of pattern density. That is likely why they were chosen as the only approved shot size. I'm going to try and pick a box up at the weekend, nowhere local sells them I think they were express supergame. Got a feeling they were in a 2 3/4 case though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: I'm going to try and pick a box up at the weekend, nowhere local sells them I think they were express supergame. Got a feeling they were in a 2 3/4 case though Apparently you can get 3” 50g AAA Carts 👍🏻 Brace yourself! Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpy22 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 44 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: I'm going to try and pick a box up at the weekend, nowhere local sells them I think they were express supergame. Got a feeling they were in a 2 3/4 case though I had a box given o me years ago. Only used on foxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 hours ago, Farmboy91 said: I can't imagine AAA's throw much of a pattern after 20 odd yards Its not bad, it hits pretty hard and is a much better pattern than the bigger stuff. 20-30 yards off its just possible a Muntjac could walk clean through the pattern of a SG cartridge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 I really would not contemplate shooting at a Muntjac with a regular load (30gm ish) of AAA at over about 20yds because of an almost total lack of adequate pattern. Must say, whilst I have shot many Muntjac, I have never shot any deer with a shotgun. As Walker570 rightly states, Muntjac are tough little critters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, ClemFandango said: Build a fence... It is only legal to use a shotgun and AAA for deer in specific circumstances. taken from http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/best_practice/legislation_health_and_safety_and_welfare.php Damage by deer. [s.7Deer Act] On any cultivated land, pasture or enclosed woodland, deer may be shot during the close season and a shotgun can be used in certain circumstances [see below] in order to prevent damage. This action may be taken by the occupier of the land in person and with his written permission by: Any member of the occupier’s household normally resident on the land; Any person in ordinary service of the occupier of the land; Any person having the right to take or kill deer on the land; Any person acting with written authority of a person having that right. Subject to that person having: Reasonable grounds for believing that deer of the same species were causing or had caused damage to crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber or any other form of property on the land and; further damage was likely to be caused and was likely to be serious; The action was necessary to prevent any such damage. If a shotgun is to be used, the following conditions apply It must be not smaller than a 12 bore; AAA shot ONLY may be used, or A single non-spherical projectile weighing not less than 22.68 grammes (350 grains) Note that a firearms certificate is required to purchase such ammunition. I don't know why Dekers keeps referencing humane despatch, he's correct, you can use any means necessary to put an animal out of it's suffering but it is totally irrelevant in your case as you aren't talking about wounded muntjac. Unless you are selling your apples as a commercial crop, have tried all other methods to prevent damage and can prove it is muntjac doing the damage I would say you would struggle to justify the legality in your situation. You may find that you can shoot the legally with a fullbore. Your FLO's ignorance isn't really an excuse for you not to apply. If you have good reason then put in an application for a deer calibre rifle on that basis. Then you can control them legally. I don't, and I guess you missed this! On 10/06/2019 at 16:18, Dekers said: From memory its Section 7 of the 1991 Act, its a long time since I looked! PS. the Humane dispatch situation is altogether different! Edited June 13, 2019 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said: Apparently you can get 3” 50g AAA Carts 👍🏻 Brace yourself! Lol Thats the size I'd be aiming for should I be able to get them lol 54 minutes ago, Dekers said: Its not bad, it hits pretty hard and is a much better pattern than the bigger stuff. 20-30 yards off its just possible a Muntjac could walk clean through the pattern of a SG cartridge! I guess thats the downside to using a big shot size, whatever I pick ill pattern before using in the field. 1 hour ago, bumpy22 said: I had a box given o me years ago. Only used on foxes I rung round loads of rfd's even hoping to get hold of some old stock but no joy. I want a box or two for a foxing anyway, been using 35g 4's until now. 48 minutes ago, London Best said: I really would not contemplate shooting at a Muntjac with a regular load (30gm ish) of AAA at over about 20yds because of an almost total lack of adequate pattern. Must say, whilst I have shot many Muntjac, I have never shot any deer with a shotgun. As Walker570 rightly states, Muntjac are tough little critters. I came across the idea of using the 12b by chance, really is a last resort as it should be, I'd much rather go FAC but that's an increased time frame + the financial cost of it too. I hardly get enough time to get out with the shotgun's not sure if I'd have enough use of a 223/243 or even a 22 rim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Please don’t fall into the trap of thinking that doubling your shot load will double your range. It won’t, nowhere near. You will gain a few extra yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 I was more thinking keeping it to 25/30 as a max just with the extra shot hopefully providing a denser pattern. Don't want to over choke and blow whatever pattern it may throw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Dekers said: I don't, and I guess you missed this! I'm easily confused Dekers. What did you mean by that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 It would be far less hassle asking someone else to sort it. You could share the venison and end up with far less meat damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dougy said: It would be far less hassle asking someone else to sort it. You could share the venison and end up with far less meat damage. There is that, but then I'd have to find someone local, who I could trust with an open ticket I believe? I can guarantee I'll buy a box or two and never seem them again anyway 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 26 minutes ago, Farmboy91 said: There is that, but then I'd have to find someone local, who I could trust with an open ticket I believe? I can guarantee I'll buy a box or two and never seem them again anyway 😂 I very rarely use the bigger shot for anything theses days, used a couple of boxes of BB all my life, I may just be on the second box of AAA, and I have never used my SG for anything except seeing what it can do, and still only used about half of the only box I have ever bought. That's me of course, other people may well have more use for them! To get back to the original question, YES, it is legal to use AAA on any deer (within conditions), but it would very rarely be first choice for most people with deer issues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I have never used the SG or the AAA. I only use bb if I am expecting a fox in close and its rarely that I would go specifically for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmboy91 Posted June 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Dekers said: I very rarely use the bigger shot for anything theses days, used a couple of boxes of BB all my life, I may just be on the second box of AAA, and I have never used my SG for anything except seeing what it can do, and still only used about half of the only box I have ever bought. That's me of course, other people may well have more use for them! To get back to the original question, YES, it is legal to use AAA on any deer (within conditions), but it would very rarely be first choice for most people with deer issues! Thank you for all your input, much appreciated 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I'm not sure they are as tough as you folks say, I've seen a collie catch and kill one in rough cover. They aren't as strong as a roe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 Many dogs have visited the vets through catching Muntjac. The buck’s canine teeth are dangerous in a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 4 hours ago, washerboy said: I'm not sure they are as tough as you folks say, I've seen a collie catch and kill one in rough cover. They aren't as strong as a roe I'm glad you said that, they certainly have a reputation for being tuff but they all fall down when I shoot them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 I have pushed them from cover with terriers for a group of German /Hungarian lads to shoot. Not sure what they paid but I got cash and fed and travelled 150 miles around trip and still was in pocket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 29 minutes ago, Dekers said: I'm glad you said that, they certainly have a reputation for being tuff but they all fall down when I shoot them! Lucky collie. My GSP cornered a muntie buck once and got a neat slice down the front of his face like it had been opened up by a razor blade. Luckily missed his eye by a smidgin. 5 hours ago, washerboy said: I'm not sure they are as tough as you folks say, I've seen a collie catch and kill one in rough cover. They aren't as strong as a roe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washerboy Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 Without incriminating myself I Shan't comment on how I have hunted deer with dogs. Just to say muntjac are the easiest of all beside waterdeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, washerboy said: Without incriminating myself I Shan't comment on how I have hunted deer with dogs. Just to say muntjac are the easiest of all beside waterdeer What a ******* stupid thing to post. "Without incriminating myself I found this out while I was also on the lookout for barns to do over and scrap metal to pinch." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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