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Zimtrout

16 Bore enthusiasts

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23 minutes ago, Zimtrout said:

Do tell????

In ye olde days of black powder, damascus and soft lead, a square load kept the pressure down (less than 6000psi) when fired, minimising set back (shot compression and distortion caused by the chamber pressure) and poor patterns and it made sense to use a shotgun with a squared load and using a different bore for loads depending on the proposed gun use.

With modern shot with 3% antimony for standard loads and 5% for magnum loads, which can cope with 11600psi and 14,000psi respectively it is no longer a requirement.

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43 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

In ye olde days of black powder, damascus and soft lead, a square load kept the pressure down (less than 6000psi) when fired, minimising set back (shot compression and distortion caused by the chamber pressure) and poor patterns and it made sense to use a shotgun with a squared load and using a different bore for loads depending on the proposed gun use.

With modern shot with 3% antimony for standard loads and 5% for magnum loads, which can cope with 11600psi and 14,000psi respectively it is no longer a requirement.

This accurate post means I have to amplify my reasoning. Yep, set back is taken care of to a degree but not totally by the antimony - the longer the payload height, the greater the setback effect, but distortion to the shot in contact with the barrel wall is not. A quick calculation will reflect the difference in 1oz of shot in the 16 as compared to, say, a 20.

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i see, i think. what modern load does that equate to? i have looked at getting some cartridges? i figure nothing too punchy for the old girl??

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14 hours ago, Zimtrout said:

i see, i think. what modern load does that equate to? i have looked at getting some cartridges? i figure nothing too punchy for the old girl??

Obviously, your best bet is to wait and see what the guys who use them have to say. However, in the meantime, if you need a 12 bore performance don't use the 16 if you get my drift. Something easy on the shoulder which hopefully would equate to a sensible momentum figure which might assist with pattern quality? Fibre wad, perhaps? One cartridge for various game? I would have said Hull as they had a bit of a cake and pop party a while back regarding the 16, but they've gone right off 7 shot. Lyalvale offer a moderately paced 28g in 5,6 and 7 which should cover all bets. (I've just chosen the 25g 20 bore version above all others for my light-weight gun and am well pleased.)

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The usual load for a 16 bore game gun has been 15/16 ounce since I was a kid (now 70). That’s about 26.5 gram. in modern EU speak.

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1 hour ago, London Best said:

The usual load for a 16 bore game gun has been 15/16 ounce since I was a kid (now 70). That’s about 26.5 gram. in modern EU speak.

And then along comes a younger mind which shows that I'd remembered incorrectly and was 1/16oz out. :oops: The last place that I saw those mentioned was in the 2014 Eley Shooters Diary (the latest one that I have).

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I too use the 25 gm Lyalvale in my English 20 bore and find it very effective.

I don’t know what loads are available these days for a 16 bore as I have not owned one since 1962. One ounce or 28 gram would certainly not be excessive though.

 

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6 hours ago, wymberley said:

 I would have said Hull as they had a bit of a cake and pop party a while back regarding the 16, but they've gone right off 7 shot.

I caught the Hull guy at Scone Game Fair and queried him on lack of No 7 loads (especially for pigeon) and the large shot sizes in 410 loads which were not appropriate for the calibre, but basically it came down to profits (demand) and that unless he could shift 10k a week of any one loading they were not interested.

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Rc 16's in 28g 6 weren't a bad load when I had my 16, I did have some old Gp's in the 26.5g load but as far as I know you can't get them anywhere other than old stock or checking holts/southams sometimes they turn up in the auctions. ( they were by far the best I'd used) 

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1 hour ago, Farmboy91 said:

Rc 16's in 28g 6 weren't a bad load when I had my 16, I did have some old Gp's in the 26.5g load but as far as I know you can't get them anywhere other than old stock or checking holts/southams sometimes they turn up in the auctions. ( they were by far the best I'd used) 

I too use either RC 28 grm fibre was 6s or Eley VIP Game 28 grm fibre wad 6s in both my 16s and find both effective with acceptable recoil.

As said, the square load has always been regarded as ideal with the minimum shot deformity.

OB

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34 minutes ago, Old Boggy said:

I too use either RC 28 grm fibre was 6s or Eley VIP Game 28 grm fibre wad 6s in both my 16s and find both effective with acceptable recoil.

As said, the square load has always been regarded as ideal with the minimum shot deformity.

OB

Rc 16's seem to be among the most widely available. 

Reading this thread has got me itching to get another 16 in the cabinet. 

 

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10 hours ago, Farmboy91 said:

Rc 16's seem to be among the most widely available. 

Reading this thread has got me itching to get another 16 in the cabinet. 

 

do it......

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Well worth a try. Nearly suggested them but didn't as in 12b I'm happy with the Super Game High Bird so couldn't warrant the extra dosh (not to mention that yet again there's no 7s) and also the Lyalvale also include the 7s in the same cartridge. Unlike the 12b version of the Regal, the 16b have a lower MV - 1350 as opposed to 1425 - which may well prove advantageous and certainly there'll be very little effective difference in downrange velocity.

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2 hours ago, Zimtrout said:

do it......

It's on the cards, haven't got the cabinet space at the moment nor room for another cabinet 😔 

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The game bores were not cheap but, i wont be using massive amounts of shells. i like to buy from our local gun shops too. keep us all going. wold you prefer a 7 to a six for pigeons over decoys. I understand that there are less 6's in a 16 compared to a 12. Is there a corresponding difference in the 16 version.....presumably yes?

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While I remember Hull did the 3 crowns in paper cased 16, ask about and you might get lucky 👍 

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20 minutes ago, Zimtrout said:

The game bores were not cheap but, i wont be using massive amounts of shells. i like to buy from our local gun shops too. keep us all going. wold you prefer a 7 to a six for pigeons over decoys. I understand that there are less 6's in a 16 compared to a 12. Is there a corresponding difference in the 16 version.....presumably yes?

We've been 'all at 6s and 7s' for ever. The difference is not horrendously great. But, for my money, over decoys 7s do have the advantage in that at the range envisaged there is sufficient energy and a wise choice of cartridge and choke can make success a great deal easier.

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My mate has got a side by side he is trying to get rid off if anyone interested drop me a message. I think he only wants a £120

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3 hours ago, bumpy22 said:

My mate has got a side by side he is trying to get rid off if anyone interested drop me a message. I think he only wants a £120

what is it??/

5 hours ago, wymberley said:

We've been 'all at 6s and 7s' for ever. The difference is not horrendously great. But, for my money, over decoys 7s do have the advantage in that at the range envisaged there is sufficient energy and a wise choice of cartridge and choke can make success a great deal easier.

i saw the thread re load vs choke and shot size, some interesting reading......

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Anybody doing a fancy brush up on a 16 bore. local fellow fitting a 16 with an extra set of barrels and some nice engraving.

Mc Manimons Fox.jpg

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I have a nice 16 bore Henri Pieper hammer gun just taking up space in the cabinet but have no idea what it worth very good condition with exceptional blueing 

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On 15/07/2019 at 08:33, Zimtrout said:

on the cartridge choice has anyone tried Gambore regals??my local shop sells them...

 

I can vouch for them. I sell quite few. 

I regularly shoot game with an American Parker Bros. VH Grade in 16 bore. Especially walked up or rough shooting. 

Lylevale cartridges go well. I've even taken it clay shooting just to annoy the "you can't shoot clays with a sxs" brigade.  

Best part was it only cost £50.00 because the chap he didn't want this crappy American non ejector..... more fool him. 

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On 14/07/2019 at 15:06, London Best said:

I too use the 25 gm Lyalvale in my English 20 bore and find it very effective.

I don’t know what loads are available these days for a 16 bore as I have not owned one since 1962. One ounce or 28 gram would certainly not be excessive though.

 

You can buy from 21-34gr for 16bores

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