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Actually, if you think about it for a minute, you're not reasoning with him, you're not talking to him. You're talking to everyone else but him who might frequent the site. OK, most will probably be his disciples, but not all and if you can show that there is another point of view and  if given the chance make him look silly, then so much the better. The knack is to prepare what you're going to say and stick to it - never go off piste.

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21 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Actually, if you think about it for a minute, you're not reasoning with him, you're not talking to him. You're talking to everyone else but him who might frequent the site. OK, most will probably be his disciples, but not all and if you can show that there is another point of view and  if given the chance make him look silly, then so much the better. The knack is to prepare what you're going to say and stick to it - never go off piste.

^ this :good:

Its funny, we can shout off to the converted on sites like this, but when we have the chance to voice our side in the enemies camp most seem reluctant to-do so.

Edited by old'un
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10 hours ago, wymberley said:

but could do with some back up.

Well I had a little `dig` about his comments to who-ever on here he responded to, about "being all over the place". He is clearly getting mixed up with plastic wads & re-cycling spent plastic cartridges.

As for cheap non-toxic ! I did suggest he checks the price of 25 lead loads and compares to 25 Bismuth or Tungsten. I notice we stand accused of flouting the lead shot ban for wildfowling because he heard it on good authority from someone he knows, who knows someone who said its widespread !!

Talk about old women`s gossip. Dont let facts get in the way of of a good anti-shooting rumor, that he has got 3rd hand.

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1 hour ago, old'un said:

^ this :good:

Its funny, we can shout off to the converted on sites like this, but when we have the chance to voice our side in the enemies camp most seem reluctant to-do so.

Agreed but I've done my fair share of reasoning with the unreasonable in the past. As I've grown older my patience and intolerance of fools has grown in proportion to the rise in my blood pressure. For the sake of the latter on this occasion I will leave others to thrust and parry with him.

Edited by Miserableolgit
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1 hour ago, Miserableolgit said:

Agreed but I've done my fair share of reasoning with the unreasonable in the past. As I've grown older my patience and intolerance of fools has grown in proportion to the rise in my blood pressure. For the sake of the latter on this occasion I will leave others to thrust and parry with him.

This. I work with people who are vegan and are so due to intense farming, blaming farming on climate change etc, but can have a reasoned discussion about shooting even with the ones that like fluffy bunnies and bambi. There is no reasoning with the likes of Avery and Packham and I know that they would end up doing my nut in and then me saying something counter productive. 

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What about the paragraph which mentions , 

Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding season (May to September) if......etc etc

Does this basically mean we can only shoot pigeons from the beginning of October to the end of April

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5 minutes ago, ladyjack said:

So is this liscence obsolete, and gl21/gl36,because I spoke to NE yesterday, and was not told that everything has reverted back to the old liscence. 

GL34, GL35 and GL36 are the newly issued licence's that we are now operating under until February 2020.

They cover most things the old licence did but with some minor changes.

If you read them you'll find they'll cover most situations, if you have circumstances not covered you can still apply for an individual licence.

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7 minutes ago, ladyjack said:

So is this liscence obsolete, and gl21/gl36,because I spoke to NE yesterday, and was not told that everything has reverted back to the old liscence. 

Keep up, keep up........ :-)  Everything has NOT reverted back to the old licence. Defra issued three new licences on 14 June. Visit BASC website "General Licence". Print off and acquaint yourself with what is required. Also on the FAQ's you will see that the BASC advice is that we can roost shoot and shoot over stubble.

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15 hours ago, JJsDad said:

Well I had a little `dig` about his comments to who-ever on here he responded to, about "being all over the place". He is clearly getting mixed up with plastic wads & re-cycling spent plastic cartridges.

As for cheap non-toxic ! I did suggest he checks the price of 25 lead loads and compares to 25 Bismuth or Tungsten. I notice we stand accused of flouting the lead shot ban for wildfowling because he heard it on good authority from someone he knows, who knows someone who said its widespread !!

Talk about old women`s gossip. Dont let facts get in the way of of a good anti-shooting rumor, that he has got 3rd hand.

To be fair, non toxic shot (steel) is relatively cheap.

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17 minutes ago, motty said:

To be fair, non toxic shot (steel) is relatively cheap.

Correct, but he made the sweeping statement that non-toxic per se was cheap. His reply, as half expected, didnt answer answer the points I raised; but these professional bloggers with a hidden agenda usually ignore facts that dont suit their train of thought.

8 minutes ago, sharpeshooter60 said:

or what do I have to do

How about looking at the BASC website and looking at the licence. Its all there plus a load of FAQ and answers.

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14 minutes ago, greylag said:

Eley have developed a bio degradable wad for steel cartridges.Nothing left after about 48hrs.

Yep, they have produced a degradable wad and the price will be around £300-£350 per 1000, bit steep for me to use on pigeons or blacks.

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