Conservative leadership race - merged threads

[henry d]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Where will we go?

Part way there already, it's a creek and there is no paddle.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, henry d said:

Part way there already, it's a creek and there is no paddle.

I thought it was a cliff edge ?

Is that at the end of the creek ? 😐

[Retsdon]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

What we're going to get evicted ? 

From the single market and from the other markets that we currently trade in under the umbrella of the EU,  yes we will. About 60 percent of our trade more or less. But we can keep the house. So you're right. My analogy was flawed. It's just that we won't be able to get into work. 

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-most-uk-trade-happen-outside-eu-and-trade-agreements

They'll be taking the car and the office.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Retsdon

[Rewulf]

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

From the single market and from the other markets that we currently trade in under the umbrella of the EU,  yes we will. About 60 percent of our trade more or less. But we can keep the house. So you're right. My analogy was flawed. It's just that we won't be able to get into work. 

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-most-uk-trade-happen-outside-eu-and-trade-agreements

They'll be taking the car and the office.

Ahh, I see , so we wont actually be allowed to trade with Europe, because the EU has evicted us ?

You know ,I could have sworn WE voted to leave, but along with cliff edges and punishments, it turns out the EU has actually booted us out of Europe !

I wonder if the British people know this, Parliament ? It sounds very important...
Well they ought to do , weve been told it for the last 3 1/2 years ! But shock horror , we still voted out , and we still want out, we must be mental 

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

They'll be taking the car and the office.

They can have them , the rent and repayments were too high anyway, never liked the car.

[Lloyd90]

47 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

From the single market and from the other markets that we currently trade in under the umbrella of the EU,  yes we will. About 60 percent of our trade more or less. But we can keep the house. So you're right. My analogy was flawed. It's just that we won't be able to get into work. 

https://fullfact.org/europe/does-most-uk-trade-happen-outside-eu-and-trade-agreements

They'll be taking the car and the office.

 

This sounds like an employer sacking you, but then phoning you up begging you to come in because they didn’t think it through.

You do realise trade happens both ways?

Do you think they’ll just want to stop selling us all those goods? 

The show will go on! 

 

[Raja Clavata]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

It's like that bloody awful TV series, Can't Pay We'll Take It Away. The hopeless object of everyone's derision ignores repeated warnings that they need to wake up, then one day the baliffs arrive and they're out on their ear at crack of dawn with nowhere to go and their old house boarded up with the locks changed.

Brexit in October is going to be like that. 

I still don’t particularly see it happening at all, let alone in October.

Previously it was Brexit or it’s the death of democracy.

The current narrative appears to be Brexit or the death of the Tories.

We are in the somewhat perverse situation  whereby neither Leavers nor Remainers know which is the best option for their desired outcome.

I think they call it FUBAR.

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Project Fear 3, here it comes again!

[Rewulf]

Just now, Raja Clavata said:

The current narrative appears to be Brexit or the death of the Tories.

That would be the narrative from the remain section of the media I believe ?
Remain or die ?

Remain, and any MP that supported it (unless in the London bubble) risks losing their seat, across the board.

You could call it a rock and a hard place.
You could say we need another vote, to be sure ?
You could say we need an election.

First of all, we had a vote, and it was leave, unimplemented, loss of trust in government and MPs in general has been the result.

We wont get another Ref vote until they are absolutely sure remain will win, they are not remotely sure about that.
So a narrow victory either way, despite being a travesty, would help nothing.
Labour bleated for an election, when they thought they could win, now theyre silent. Also an election will let in pro Brexit elements, will it make a Parliament capable of making up its mind , I think not.

Brexit COULD be the end of the tories, REMAIN definitely would be .
You could end up with a hung parliament with extended Libs and Brexit  members making up the depleted Tory and Lab ranks.
Again , it would solve NOTHING.

[Retsdon]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

You do realise trade happens both ways?

Of  course. Sorry, with all due respect I don't understand your point.

10 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

still don’t particularly see it happening at all, let alone in October.

Unless Britain requests, and the EU grants, another extension the current position is that the UK will leave the EU at the end of October  without a deal. Both eventualities are looking increasingly unlikely.

[Rewulf]

Just now, Retsdon said:

Unless Britain requests, and the EU grants, another extension the current position is that the UK will leave the EU at the end of October  without a deal. Both eventualities are looking increasingly unlikely.

Really , its no problem for the EU to extend, theyve already said that extending costs us an extra billion sobs a month, thats on top of our regular 10 bn a year bill, whats not to like about that, they can extend till 2050 at that, no issue to them ?

It was said we would be leaving on 29/3 , didnt happen, and I would have a wager we wont leave in October either.

 

I see a pattern emerging...

[Retsdon]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Really , its no problem for the EU to extend, theyve already said that extending costs us an extra billion sobs a month, thats on top of our regular 10 bn a year bill, whats not to like about that, they can extend till 2050 at that, no issue to them ?

It was said we would be leaving on 29/3 , didnt happen, and I would have a wager we wont leave in October either.

 

I see a pattern emerging...

As do I.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-19-2951_en.htm

But hey, Boris says it's going to be leave on 31st October 'Do or die!' And as he's a man of his word I'll believe him....

[Lloyd90]

21 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Of  course. Sorry, with all due respect I don't understand your point. 

 

Your examples of “they’re taking the car and office” compare the process to a silly marital divorce, after which someone takes things and then you never see or deal with that person again. 

In reality, after this is all over they will still want to see and work with us just as much (if not more) than they did before... 

It’s more akin to getting a divorce legally, but remaining living together and things carrying on very similarly to what you had before ... 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

We are in the somewhat perverse situation  whereby neither Leavers nor Remainers know which is the best option for their desired outcome.

 

 

And you can speak for all of us can you? My position hasn’t changed since we had the referendum; just leave and then we can all get on with our lives. What’s the worst that could happen? 

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, Scully said:

My position hasn’t changed since we had the referendum; just leave and then we can all get on with our lives. What’s the worst that could happen? 

Well, try asking the Swiss. They are in constant, never ending negotiations with the EU. And they always get the short end of the stick. May's deal was the best that was on offer and we hated it. But it's always going to be like that because that's how asymmetric negotiations are by their very nature.. And we can't live without the EU because they are not only our all-encompassing neighbour, but the 2nd largest economy on the planet. We have no choice but to deal with them on multiple levels.

It'll be like getting divorced but living under the same roof in perpetuity. Happy days...

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

And we can't live without the EU because they are not only our all-encompassing neighbour, but the 2nd largest economy on the planet. We have no choice but to deal with them on multiple levels.

I dont see a problem, we can deal with them, to our mutual benefit, thats normally how trade works.
We just dont have to be a member of the EU.
Or do you think the EU owns every business in Europe ? Guess what, they own NOTHING that we havent bought for them, they are our servants, not our masters, we pay their wages.

Never forget that.

6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

It'll be like getting divorced but living under the same roof in perpetuity. Happy days...

Is that impossible ?

[Scully]

27 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Well, try asking the Swiss.

Everything I can find online seems to suggest the Swiss are doing fine. 🙂

Like I said; what the worst that could happen? 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Scully

[Retsdon]

5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Everything I can find online seems to suggest the Swiss are doing fine. 

😁 I"m sure they are, but they aren't free from the EU. Anyway, it'll all come out in the wash, and it's bedtime here in the Far East. ZZZ time...

[Scully]

18 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

😁 I"m sure they are, but they aren't free from the EU. Anyway, it'll all come out in the wash, and it's bedtime here in the Far East. ZZZ time...

I have never said I don’t want us to trade with the EU ( as the Swiss indeed do ) only that I don’t want us to be a member of the EU. 

[pigeon controller]

I am a wee bit confused, when I have driven through Switzerland over the past thirty  years , they check to see if I have a motorway pass, never been stopped or searched. That's for passenger cars , lorries go through a different path and may be checked. So if they are checked at loading and unloading can't we keep an open border in Ulster ?

[stagboy]

1 hour ago, pigeon controller said:

I am a wee bit confused, when I have driven through Switzerland over the past thirty  years , they check to see if I have a motorway pass, never been stopped or searched. That's for passenger cars , lorries go through a different path and may be checked. So if they are checked at loading and unloading can't we keep an open border in Ulster ?

Quite so.

Like you , I have never  been stopped at the Swiss border, either driving or skiing.

And the Swiss are very prosperous (and have a very strong shooting community, incidentally). They are doing very well outside the EU, but trading with the EU. Because they have a system that involves a certain amount of direct democracy (ie referenda on important issue) their political class has never been able to hoodwink the populace into subjecting itself to the EU. Whenever they have tried, they have been told where to go by ordinary voters.

Interestingly, if you want to become a Swiss citizen, you have to reside there for at least 10 years before you can even apply. Then you have to pass stiff citizenship test, and finally you have to be interviewed by representatives of the local community who must give their blessing to your application. I they don't, then you fail, no matter how well you did in the rest of your application. Not exactly EU compliant, is it? 

I know from skiing that European Health Insurance Cards are valid in Switzerland, just as elsewhere in the EU.

In short, Switzerland seems to get  most of the benefits of EU membership, without the drawbacks and remains in control of its own society. Good on them. 

[Rewulf]

19 minutes ago, stagboy said:

I know from skiing that European Health Insurance Cards are valid in Switzerland, just as elsewhere in the EU.

In short, Switzerland seems to get  most of the benefits of EU membership, without the drawbacks and remains in control of its own society. Good on them.

Which is why the EU are applying pressure on them to either join properly, or lose the benefits that are granted. 

The Swiss have an all or nothing type customs union/single market/free movement deal. If for example they choose to end free movement, they lose all the other perks, but don't pay the billions we have to. 

Brussels has decided this has to end. 

[Raja Clavata]

12 hours ago, Scully said:

And you can speak for all of us can you? My position hasn’t changed since we had the referendum; just leave and then we can all get on with our lives. What’s the worst that could happen? 

To clarify, I was talking about which of the two leadership candidates was best to serve our desires on Brexit...

[Mice!]

9 hours ago, pigeon controller said:

I am a wee bit confused, when I have driven through Switzerland over the past thirty  years , they check to see if I have a motorway pass, never been stopped or searched. That's for passenger cars , lorries go through a different path and may be checked. So if they are checked at loading and unloading can't we keep an open border in Ulster ?

 

8 hours ago, stagboy said:

Quite so.

Like you , I have never  been stopped at the Swiss border, either driving or skiing.

And the Swiss are very prosperous (and have a very strong shooting community, incidentally). They are doing very well outside the EU, but trading with the EU. Because they have a system that involves a certain amount of direct democracy (ie referenda on important issue) their political class has never been able to hoodwink the populace into subjecting itself to the EU. Whenever they have tried, they have been told where to go by ordinary voters.

Interestingly, if you want to become a Swiss citizen, you have to reside there for at least 10 years before you can even apply. Then you have to pass stiff citizenship test, and finally you have to be interviewed by representatives of the local community who must give their blessing to your application. I they don't, then you fail, no matter how well you did in the rest of your application. Not exactly EU compliant, is it? 

I know from skiing that European Health Insurance Cards are valid in Switzerland, just as elsewhere in the EU.

In short, Switzerland seems to get  most of the benefits of EU membership, without the drawbacks and remains in control of its own society. Good on them. 

Sounds like a system that works with minimum fuss, they won't want us having any of that.

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

To clarify, I was talking about which of the two leadership candidates was best to serve our desires on Brexit...

Fair enough.