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Perfect Choke & Cartridge Combo..

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If you could pick one choke size and one cartridge for pidge at 35yrds what would you choose / what works well for you ?

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Just now, ditchman said:

1/4 choke 28gm #7 26" barrells........

Funnily enough thats exactly whay i was shooting today at the pige .

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Just now, Ultrastu said:

Funnily enough thats exactly whay i was shooting today at the pige .

how did you get on with it ?

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23 minutes ago, London Best said:

Improved cylinder with 28gram no.7

:good:

What else could you possibly need? Well, apart from 25 or 26" barrels when in a hide.

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Yeah pretty good .

I was swapping between  no 7.5  no7 no 6 and no5 trying to get a feel for the how the 1/4 chokes did on the pige .and found as long as the birds were well centred in the pattern kills were fine out to 35 yds ish with the 7.5 s 

I needed the no5 for longer shots but then with the 1/4 choke .id guess the pattern was getting thin .

 

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10 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Yeah pretty good .

I was swapping between  no 7.5  no7 no 6 and no5 trying to get a feel for the how the 1/4 chokes did on the pige .and found as long as the birds were well centred in the pattern kills were fine out to 35 yds ish with the 7.5 s 

I needed the no5 for longer shots but then with the 1/4 choke .id guess the pattern was getting thin .

 

Could even drop down to 24 g. Because the energy at that distance is not critical - there's sufficient - the kills are dependent upon the strike rate and to match that you'd have to increase the No 5 load weight quite a bit to take advantage of the energy available as even by going up to Full choke you're not going to gain much - in fact, youd lose considerably - assuming the 28g.

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18.7grms of 7s with th full choke tubes fitted.    BUT, there isn't a perfect load or we wouldn't have anything to talk about would we ?

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1/2 choke 29gr 6 shot fibre Pigeonpower from Lyalvale. Usually use 1/4 & 1/2 for decoying. Bit tight but few runners.

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Posted (edited)

For pigeon at 35 yards, I would want a cartrige and choke combination that puts at least approsimately 188 pellets in a 30 inch circle at min 0.85ftlb energy to ensure penetration and I prefer a greater number of strikes at a reasoanble power rather than the risk of fewer higher power strikes, hence the 188, rather than the lower densities often put forward.

In order to meet this criteria above you could use the following minmium loading/pellet size and choke combination and at 35 yards all will kill consistantly if you are on target: -

21g No 7.5 in 1/4

21g No 7.5IT (or No7 English) in 3/4

24g No 7.5 in IC

24g No 7.5IT (No 7) in 1/4

28g No7.5 in Cyl

28g No 7.5IT (or No7 English) in IC

28g No 6.5 in 1/4

28g No 6 in 1/2

30g No 6.5 in IC

30 No 6 in 1/2

30g No 5 in Full

32g No 6 in 1/4

32g No 5 in 3/4

34 No 6 in IC

34g No 5 in 1/2

 

I am happy with 28g of 7.5IT when using the 12b as in reality it is the best combination of cost, performance and flexibility for decoying out to 35 yards and will generally would use a briley Light Mod (1/4) which is  more than the minimum as noted above allowing 40 yards performance and any reasonable 7.5 IT or English No 7 clay fibre carrridge would do such as Fiocchi TT1, Romangna etc and cost saving of £30/1000 over so called 'pigeon cartridges' (which are really pheasant cartridges).

By tightening up the choke to 3/4 on the 28g 7.5IT and using performance clay cartridges (5% antimony and high velocity such as Blue Diamond 2.4mm, RC2 etc), the loading is still effective out to 45 yards (and perhaps a little more if choke is taken to full) and yet  less expensive than 30g No 6 Clear Pigeon which is struggling at 45 yards on anything less than Full as pellet density is not sufficent and no of injured is increasing due to holes in pattern, however 32g clear pigeon gives similar performance but again only with full choke and at a cost.

Please note however that a lot of my hide decoying is done with a 410 with 21g No 7.5 home loads and 1/4 and I feel no disadvantage sub 35 yards.

 

Edited by Stonepark

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For a novice or less experienced shooter reading this, a couple of points that may help.

The chokes specified relate to the gun/cartridge performance and not necessarily that which is stamped on either your barrel/s or choke/s.

Similarly, the pellet energy may well not be as advertised. This is not too critical unless you're going to go for the maximum capability of the gun/cartridge - and there's nothing wrong with that. The choke aspect is covered above. I have some higher quality cartridges in 7s but they're actually 374 to the ounce and could give other similar examples, but suffice to say when pushing the distance these can never perform exactly as expected for 7 shot. If we assume that the velocity is as per the advertised figure - and the size is correct, then this will be a function of the first man past the post and although increasingly makers are providing performance figurers on-line, these are calculations based on the muzzle (or at whatever point) the velocity was measured. This is good if you can ensure you're going to hit your target with this particular pellet and a couple more travelling approximately with it, but odds on are is that it'll be the main bulk arriving a tad later which will do the damage and arriving later will mean less energy because of a reduced velocity. Consequently, until you have got to grips with things it might pay to err on the side of caution and if you're having to rely on advertised figures and - as in this example where we have 0.85 ftlbs as the minimum requirement, select a maximum range as one giving, say, 1 ftlb.

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12 hours ago, Stonepark said:

For pigeon at 35 yards, I would want a cartrige and choke combination that puts at least approsimately 188 pellets in a 30 inch circle at min 0.85ftlb energy to ensure penetration and I prefer a greater number of strikes at a reasoanble power rather than the risk of fewer higher power strikes, hence the 188, rather than the lower densities often put forward.

In order to meet this criteria above you could use the following minmium loading/pellet size and choke combination and at 35 yards all will kill consistantly if you are on target: -

21g No 7.5 in 1/4

21g No 7.5IT (or No7 English) in 3/4

24g No 7.5 in IC

24g No 7.5IT (No 7) in 1/4

28g No7.5 in Cyl

28g No 7.5IT (or No7 English) in IC

28g No 6.5 in 1/4

28g No 6 in 1/2

30g No 6.5 in IC

30 No 6 in 1/2

30g No 5 in Full

32g No 6 in 1/4

32g No 5 in 3/4

34 No 6 in IC

34g No 5 in 1/2

 

I am happy with 28g of 7.5IT when using the 12b as in reality it is the best combination of cost, performance and flexibility for decoying out to 35 yards and will generally would use a briley Light Mod (1/4) which is  more than the minimum as noted above allowing 40 yards performance and any reasonable 7.5 IT or English No 7 clay fibre carrridge would do such as Fiocchi TT1, Romangna etc and cost saving of £30/1000 over so called 'pigeon cartridges' (which are really pheasant cartridges).

By tightening up the choke to 3/4 on the 28g 7.5IT and using performance clay cartridges (5% antimony and high velocity such as Blue Diamond 2.4mm, RC2 etc), the loading is still effective out to 45 yards (and perhaps a little more if choke is taken to full) and yet  less expensive than 30g No 6 Clear Pigeon which is struggling at 45 yards on anything less than Full as pellet density is not sufficent and no of injured is increasing due to holes in pattern, however 32g clear pigeon gives similar performance but again only with full choke and at a cost.

Please note however that a lot of my hide decoying is done with a 410 with 21g No 7.5 home loads and 1/4 and I feel no disadvantage sub 35 yards.

 

That's a really good summary :)

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On 29/06/2019 at 21:22, Walker570 said:

 there isn't a perfect load or we wouldn't have anything to talk about would we ?

Dead right , if the person behind the trigger is a reasonable shot he /she will soon find a combination that suit him and the gun he is using , if he is below par with his shooting skills, then I am sorry to say there isn't a ideal load and choke , you can see by the above posts the variation to prove what you are saying .

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28g load of 7's through half - this gives the highest probability of a quick kill whilst providing an adequate margin of error without the risk from sparse outer edges of the pattern which are a feature of more open chokes and bigger shot. 

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1 hour ago, Hamster said:

28g load of 7's through half - this gives the highest probability of a quick kill whilst providing an adequate margin of error without the risk from sparse outer edges of the pattern which are a feature of more open chokes and bigger shot. 

Yep, right enough, once you get to 70% pattern which is what we're talking about here then any increase in outer ring density is negligible - it's as good as it's going to get - but do we need that tight at the maximum range specified?

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On 29/06/2019 at 19:59, ditchman said:

1/4 choke 28gm #7 26" barrells........

i will just add this is for decoying..........not high birds on a flightline......when you are decoying the birds in they could be shot at mostly from 15-30 odd yards....so you dont want to tear them up ....

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58 minutes ago, ditchman said:

i will just add this is for decoying..........not high birds on a flightline......when you are decoying the birds in they could be shot at mostly from 15-30 odd yards....so you dont want to tear them up ....

:good:

Which is precisely the question the OP asked.

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hello, if you go back to the 1960s 1970s it was then most Eley grand prix 6s until we got those foreign carts like the Baikals, not sure which shooting book advocated choke sizes over decoys but the OPs question of 35 yards would be 1/4 choke and 6 shot although i had my first AYA bored out to improved/ half, interesting today though as i use most cheap 7.5s 28 g and tried those chokes in my O/U  and did not pattern well so trying 3/4 and full,     

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45 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, if you go back to the 1960s 1970s it was then most Eley grand prix 6s until we got those foreign carts like the Baikals, not sure which shooting book advocated choke sizes over decoys but the OPs question of 35 yards would be 1/4 choke and 6 shot although i had my first AYA bored out to improved/ half, interesting today though as i use most cheap 7.5s 28 g and tried those chokes in my O/U  and did not pattern well so trying 3/4 and full,     

Trouble is (was) back then, with the one obvious exception, hardly anyone was pigeon shooting. Consequentl;y, your bibliography was limited to Burrard, The Man and the Eley Diary. Everything was still 3 pellet count and chokes were still a la game. It wasn't until the major studies into NTS began that the error of our ways was corrected by a combination of new studies and older work which we, in the UK, had missed.

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