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J D Hunter

Perfect Choke & Cartridge Combo..

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On 29/06/2019 at 19:59, ditchman said:

1/4 choke 28gm #7 26" barrells........

 

7 hours ago, ditchman said:

i will just add this is for decoying..........not high birds on a flightline......when you are decoying the birds in they could be shot at mostly from 15-30 odd yards....so you dont want to tear them up ....

How do you find a 26 inch barrel gun handles? I currently shoot over & under with 30 inch barrels for pigeons , Clay's & game as it's my only gun . But while out pigeon shooting the other day it got me thinking that the third shot from a semi auto would be really handy just found a benelli semi auto with 26 inch barrels but I've never shot a gun with such short barrels was wondering how it would handle & what it would be like in the hide as opposed to what I am currently shooting 

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9 minutes ago, Stephen-H said:

 

How do you find a 26 inch barrel gun handles? I currently shoot over & under with 30 inch barrels for pigeons , Clay's & game as it's my only gun . But while out pigeon shooting the other day it got me thinking that the third shot from a semi auto would be really handy just found a benelli semi auto with 26 inch barrels but I've never shot a gun with such short barrels was wondering how it would handle & what it would be like in the hide as opposed to what I am currently shooting 

i just find the shorter barrels are very fast to point...the gun tends to be more evenly balanced...allowing quicker target aquesition..........especially for closer decoying......whereas for wildfowling and high flightlining ...where you need a nice smooth swing and pull thro...and you have time to see the bird....longer barrels for me tend to be far better.......

i do believe a shorter barrel can make you belive it is more cartridge sensertive...........

but that could be the subject of a whole new post..

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On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 19:42, bornfree said:

1/4 choke 32g 5 shot

Seems a little strange combo to me.

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6 hours ago, ditchman said:

i just find the shorter barrels are very fast to point...the gun tends to be more evenly balanced...allowing quicker target aquesition..........especially for closer decoying......whereas for wildfowling and high flightlining ...where you need a nice smooth swing and pull thro...and you have time to see the bird....longer barrels for me tend to be far better.......

i do believe a shorter barrel can make you belive it is more cartridge sensertive...........

but that could be the subject of a whole new post..

Sounds like it could be for me will have to give it a try and see how I go on 

1 hour ago, motty said:

Seems a little strange combo to me.

Could be a fixed choke gun? I shoot 1/4 & 1/2 on a multi choked 525 for clay , pigeon & game & have dropped good pheasants with 1/4 choke 32grams 5 fibre hull high pheasants cartridges . Going to try 1/2 & 1/2 choke this season 

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1 hour ago, Stephen-H said:

Sounds like it could be for me will have to give it a try and see how I go on 

Could be a fixed choke gun? I shoot 1/4 & 1/2 on a multi choked 525 for clay , pigeon & game & have dropped good pheasants with 1/4 choke 32grams 5 fibre hull high pheasants cartridges . Going to try 1/2 & 1/2 choke this season 

The question was about 35 yard pigeons. The choking is fine for that range, but 5s is a strange one. 9s will kill 35 yard pigeons, whereas 5s are totally unnecessary. If the question was about 60 yard pigeons, and the answer was 32gm 5 and full choke, I would understand better.

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On 05/07/2019 at 21:10, motty said:

Seems a little strange combo to me.

Years ago I used to shoot great numbers of herring and greater black back gulls on the duck farm and I found 32g 5s were the best for bringing them down and I've used them for everything since.

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This was the original question:

If you could pick one choke size and one cartridge for pidge at 35yrds what would you choose / what works well for you.

My answer would be 1/4 with 30G of No.6 because 1/4 is enough at 35 yards and 30G No.6 is a commonly manufactured pigeon cartridge and therefore cost effective, (also it is up to the job.)

My question is why limit yourself to 35 yards? if I'm decoying and get a chance at a 50 yarder (maybe more) I want to be prepared for that opportunity.

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25 minutes ago, martinj said:

This was the original question:

If you could pick one choke size and one cartridge for pidge at 35yrds what would you choose / what works well for you.

My answer would be 1/4 with 30G of No.6 because 1/4 is enough at 35 yards and 30G No.6 is a commonly manufactured pigeon cartridge and therefore cost effective, (also it is up to the job.)

My question is why limit yourself to 35 yards? if I'm decoying and get a chance at a 50 yarder (maybe more) I want to be prepared for that opportunity.

Yes that was the original question and as normal out came lots of mumbo jumbo and technical details designed to confuse the majority of shot gun shooters.

My personal preference, admittedly from very little experience in the field, is 29 gram no 6 through 1/4 choke.

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31 minutes ago, JDog said:

Yes that was the original question and as normal out came lots of mumbo jumbo and technical details designed to confuse the majority of shot gun shooters.

My personal preference, admittedly from very little experience in the field, is 29 gram no 6 through 1/4 choke.

Yep, that's good for the 35 yards.

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1 hour ago, martinj said:

This was the original question:

If you could pick one choke size and one cartridge for pidge at 35yrds what would you choose / what works well for you.

My answer would be 1/4 with 30G of No.6 because 1/4 is enough at 35 yards and 30G No.6 is a commonly manufactured pigeon cartridge and therefore cost effective, (also it is up to the job.)

My question is why limit yourself to 35 yards? if I'm decoying and get a chance at a 50 yarder (maybe more) I want to be prepared for that opportunity.

So, what's the answer in as much as if you don't limit yourself, what choke/cartridge would you choose?

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I often use 1/4 and 1/2 for decoying, might go 1/2 and 1/2 if the birds aren't coming in well and have been known to use 1/2 &1/2 or 3/4 & 3/4 for flight lines.

Same ammo for all, mostly Eley Pigeon select 30g No.6, sometimes Clear pigeon 30 or 32g No.6

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Posted (edited)

Don’t worry to much about chokes, although my O/U is half and full fixed and my auto has half choke fitted, I use 28g 7.5 or 30g 6s, both cartridges will kill out to 40+ yards regardless of choke.

Surprised no one as mentioned steel shot/choke combo.

Edited by old'un

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16 hours ago, old'un said:

Don’t worry to much about chokes, although my O/U is half and full fixed and my auto has half choke fitted, I use 28g 7.5 or 30g 6s, both cartridges will kill out to 40+ yards regardless of choke.

Surprised no one as mentioned steel shot/choke combo.

Yep, not much you can do about the OU except, perhaps use a lighter load. However, as the 7.5s won't kill further than the 40+ yards anyway because of lack of energy, why not put a TC in the self loader and make life easier?

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20 hours ago, old'un said:

 

Surprised no one as mentioned steel shot/choke combo.

Is it wise to open that can of worms 

😂 

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Even compared to todays prolific shots (who tend of course to be hobby shooters as opposed to full time vermin controllers) Archie Coates probably killed more pigeon than most and he reckoned on no. 7 shot being better than any others for decoying. So convinced was he that he in fact made a point of revising his shot size recommendation on reprints of his classic book. The original 35 yard mentioned by the OP is bang on typical decoying yardage so the only real variable/preference (to satisfy the actual question) is surely the choke.

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24 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Even compared to todays prolific shots (who tend of course to be hobby shooters as opposed to full time vermin controllers) Archie Coates probably killed more pigeon than most and he reckoned on no. 7 shot being better than any others for decoying. So convinced was he that he in fact made a point of revising his shot size recommendation on reprints of his classic book. The original 35 yard mentioned by the OP is bang on typical decoying yardage so the only real variable/preference (to satisfy the actual question) is surely the choke.

:good:

The only problem is is whereas one can of worms has already been mentioned, your final word is an even bigger one. You mention Coats changing his mind re the shot size, as did GT more than once re the choke. Now, of course, it's quite easy with a little forethought for folk to come up with a starter for ten prior to fine tuning this to suit their individual needs or preferences.

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8 hours ago, wymberley said:

:good:

The only problem is is whereas one can of worms has already been mentioned, your final word is an even bigger one. You mention Coats changing his mind re the shot size, as did GT more than once re the choke. Now, of course, it's quite easy with a little forethought for folk to come up with a starter for ten prior to fine tuning this to suit their individual needs or preferences.

When Coates started his career no. 6 shot size would have been widely touted as the most suitable for pigeon (even now woodies are often described as "tough" birds), it was through actual experience in the field that he realised 7's were better so he said so. He came to see that they offered better density and at those kinds of ranges were still easily up to the job. 

It's not dissimilar to the old 7.5's V 8's argument, there are no end of (older) academic graphs and data available on the net that will have you believe 8's "run out of steam" beyond 35+ yards 💬 , today we know they'll crush even edge on clays at almost double that ! 

Other myths (for me at any rate) include assumptions that 1/4 choke offered enough density at up to 40 yards, my own experience is that when you decoy birds up close (20-25 yards) even Cylinder can make a decent job especially with 32g of 7's but that 6's coupled to light chokes lacked density at 35 yards, I believe a lot of the more experienced pigeon shooters on the forum will also tell us they routinely shoot tight chokes. This all ties in with other widely held old wives tales/assumptions such as 3 pellets (on average) being sufficient to ensure the demise of a game bird. 

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1 hour ago, Hamster said:

When Coates started his career no. 6 shot size would have been widely touted as the most suitable for pigeon (even now woodies are often described as "tough" birds), it was through actual experience in the field that he realised 7's were better so he said so. He came to see that they offered better density and at those kinds of ranges were still easily up to the job. 

It's not dissimilar to the old 7.5's V 8's argument, there are no end of (older) academic graphs and data available on the net that will have you believe 8's "run out of steam" beyond 35+ yards 💬 , today we know they'll crush even edge on clays at almost double that ! 

Other myths (for me at any rate) include assumptions that 1/4 choke offered enough density at up to 40 yards, my own experience is that when you decoy birds up close (20-25 yards) even Cylinder can make a decent job especially with 32g of 7's but that 6's coupled to light chokes lacked density at 35 yards, I believe a lot of the more experienced pigeon shooters on the forum will also tell us they routinely shoot tight chokes. This all ties in with other widely held old wives tales/assumptions such as 3 pellets (on average) being sufficient to ensure the demise of a game bird. 

:good:Although I haven't a clue about the clays and 7.5s v the 8s.

The real problem was that it was 3 pellets with no mention of "on average". It was supposed to be a 3 pellet minimum on every shot. Work by the BRL (which was not published being outside of the Defra remit) concides precisely with that detailed by the BASC (it is perhaps unfortunate that some of the other information given in this reference is flawed) although the approach is different. Because the two studies are so coincidental, one could suggest that they have an element of merit. The BASC actually give a figure but based on "reasonable" as detailed by GT in his definition of maximum range, I believe that this should be slightly reduced as it's heading for the holy grail of shooting which as we know is not possible when talking shotgun because of the number of variations encountered.

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