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STOP PRESS !! Thames Valley Police NEW ruling FAC/SHOTGUN Applications/ Renewal/ GP assessment letter


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It will come to all regions very, very soon.

Taken from the latest FELWG minutes...................

Medical screening

A discussion took place in relation to the current position on pre-medical screening information. The issues that arose were.

1) More forces have adopted this process in line with Police Scotland

2) The BMA have amended their guidance as of 28 February 2019 to support both the process AND the placing of a marker on patient records where this can be done.

3) Home Office guidance consultation is due to commence in July but has been significantly delayed.

4) Analysis of forces undertaking the process currently is very positive.

5) The Royal College of General Practitioners are supportive of the process.

6) BASC and other shooting groups have been consulted and remain concerned in relation to doctors objecting to the process and costs.

7) DO is briefing the policing minister shortly. Having discussed the issue widely, and the recent changes with the BMA guidance that the time was appropriate for FELWG to formally recommend pre-medical screening to forces as best practice, in anticipation of Home Office statutory guidance consultation commencing shortly.

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So they are conspiring to introduce mandatory medical screening immediately, so the so called "best practice" is in place before consultations begin? Hardly worth bothering to pretend they are participating in a genuine consultation is it?..........It's a fait accompli!

So much for the regulators code eh?

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The really really annoying thing about this ( apart from our organisations being ineffectual  ) is that it all came about because a certain Police firearms licensing authority allowed a historical drunken violent woman beater to have his firearms back, who then went on to shoot and kill his partner, her sister and her niece before killing himself. Durham police had more than ample opportunities to seize his firearms, which they did....for a spell, and revoke his license, which they didn't! Even his GP had informed the rozzers about his drinking, and they themselves were well aware of his history of violence!   You couldn't make it up! It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic! So the Police cock up...again, and innocent people pay suffer the consequences. Ah well. 

 

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3 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

they cocked up and its us that suffers.

Isn't that the case with most things?

Boris's water canon

british library

rewiring of, I think, Royal Opera House or somewhere similar....used wrong cable

NHS Computer system

Airbone Radar system

VTOL aircraft successor of Harrier

Military fast hook/unhook loading/off loading system (wagon with big hook on overhead arm type thing)

 

the list goes on

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So how exactly does this work in practice?

We complete a renewal or application and then make an appointment to see the GP to sign it? Or is it a letter or what?

sorry if I've missed something but I have just renewed my SGC (early as requested by TVP) so haven't been keeping such a close eye on things!

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10 hours ago, Wingman said:

Or is it a letter or what?

It is a letter. Drafted and signed by your GP. The Kent Police firearms dept have a sample letter on their website. I should think most forces have a sample  so that the GP knows what he is checking for when going through medical records.

The letter must state the applicant is free from things like depression, mood swings, alcohol & drugs abuse etc etc.

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And what happens if the GP doesnt want to sign it, are they obliged to do so? 

Like others I decided not to renew my BASC membership some time ago as I simply dont see what value they provide. My views have been fully reinforced during the GL debacle and now this.  I'll retain my CPSA membership though to keep my number and and the magazine is great. It also provides me with the insurance I need.  

Edited by Wingman
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Thames Valley Alert Logo
Thames Valley Police
Message Type Icon

Important Changes To Medical Information


Information notice - Changes to Medical Information
 
You are now required to provide medical information verified by a GP for all firearm and shotgun applications - this includes renewals. This applies to any application, whether declaring a medical condition or not.   The change is being implemented to enable the Police to make informed decisions which will protect both the shooting community and the wider public. The change will mean a consistent and fair process for all applicants, and will assist in improving application processing times. The fact you have a condition may not necessarily mean your application is refused. However, a false declaration could result in your prosecution, or your application being refused, or your existing license being revoked and your firearms or shotguns being seized.
 
This change will affect any application submitted from 1st August 2019.

FAQs
 
When will this new medical process start?

 
The introduction of a pre application medical screening will come into effect on 1st August 2019.
 
What does this mean for you, the applicant?
 
On applying for the grant or renewal of a firearm/shot gun/RFD application (online or paper) all applicants will be required to submit with their application a completed GP pro forma that has been agreed between Thames Valley Police and the Berkshire, Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire Local Medical Committees (LMCs). This pro forma can be found on the Thames Valley Police website or can be obtained direct from your GP.
 
Who contacts my GP?
 
Applicants will be responsible for contacting their GP for this information.
 
What happens if I do not submit the pre medical screening information?
 
Applications received without the applicant’s medical information (GP pro forma) will be returned to the applicant with a request to submit this information. If the application is received again without this supporting documentation the application may be refused.
 
Why are Thames Valley Police implementing this change in policy?
 
The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) and Home Office Guidance states that before granting or renewing a firearm/shot gun certificate the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that applicants can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/shot guns/ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace. Details that are required in order to make an informed decision on an applicant’s suitability, includes information relating to their medical history.
 
The current medical process in place may leave a substantial gap in the available information and intelligence assessed at the point of grant or renewal. Medical evidence is pivotal to police decision making.  
 
The introduction of a pre application medical screening will ensure that the firearms licensing department has all the relevant available information as to the suitability of the applicant prior to grant or renewal. This will help to mitigate risk as far as reasonably practicable. This single process will also make the process more streamlined and quicker for applicants, as the police will no longer have to contact the GP and await a reply.
 
Why is Thames Valley Police not complying with Home Office Guidance on this matter?
 
Whilst Home Office Guidance is intended to assist with consistency of practice between forces it is Chief Officers who are ultimately responsible for the administration of firearms licensing in their force area. Home Office Guidance acknowledges this and understands that it may be necessary for forces to depart from the guidance when each case is assessed on its merits and the circumstances justify such a course of action. Home Office Guidance also has no statutory footing and our legal advice is that if harm was done as a result of the police issuing a certificate the responsibility for failing to properly manage the risk, would from a legal perspective, fall to the police.
 
Will there be a fee from my GP?
 
Guidance from the BMA and LMC is very clear that this type of work falls outside of the NHS remit and as such surgeries will request a fee from the applicant.
 email.gif

Message Sent By
Zoe Powderly (Police, Manager, Firearms Licensing )

 

It was actually nearly a month ago they circulated this! :good:

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7 minutes ago, Wingman said:

And what happens if the GP doesnt want to sign it, are they obliged to do so? 

Like others I decided not to renew my BASC membership some time ago as I simply dont see what value they provide. My views have been fully reinforced during the GL debacle and now this.  I'll retain my CPSA membership though to keep my number and and the magazine is great. It also provides me with the insurance I need.  

At times it looks like the medical profession are making it up as they go along too - only this week I read reports that the BMA are going against the governments wishes and deciding not to charge overseas health tourists. What if the BMA executive committee decide that they disagree with private firearm ownership - or once the majority of police forces fall into line, just decide to hike the prices to some astronomical level.

Looking at the BMA guide prices they are already asking £133 for a 30 minute report.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/fees/fee-finder-what-to-charge-your-patients

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25 minutes ago, Dekers said:
Thames Valley Alert Logo
Thames Valley Police
Message Type Icon

Important Changes To Medical Information


Information notice - Changes to Medical Information
 
You are now required to provide medical information verified by a GP for all firearm and shotgun applications - this includes renewals. This applies to any application, whether declaring a medical condition or not.   The change is being implemented to enable the Police to make informed decisions which will protect both the shooting community and the wider public. The change will mean a consistent and fair process for all applicants, and will assist in improving application processing times. The fact you have a condition may not necessarily mean your application is refused. However, a false declaration could result in your prosecution, or your application being refused, or your existing license being revoked and your firearms or shotguns being seized.
 
This change will affect any application submitted from 1st August 2019.

FAQs
 
When will this new medical process start?

 
The introduction of a pre application medical screening will come into effect on 1st August 2019.
 
What does this mean for you, the applicant?
 
On applying for the grant or renewal of a firearm/shot gun/RFD application (online or paper) all applicants will be required to submit with their application a completed GP pro forma that has been agreed between Thames Valley Police and the Berkshire, Buckinghamshire & Oxfordshire Local Medical Committees (LMCs). This pro forma can be found on the Thames Valley Police website or can be obtained direct from your GP.
 
Who contacts my GP?
 
Applicants will be responsible for contacting their GP for this information.
 
What happens if I do not submit the pre medical screening information?
 
Applications received without the applicant’s medical information (GP pro forma) will be returned to the applicant with a request to submit this information. If the application is received again without this supporting documentation the application may be refused.
 
Why are Thames Valley Police implementing this change in policy?
 
The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) and Home Office Guidance states that before granting or renewing a firearm/shot gun certificate the Chief Officer of Police needs to be satisfied that applicants can be permitted to have the firearm(s)/shot guns/ammunition without danger to the public safety or to the peace. Details that are required in order to make an informed decision on an applicant’s suitability, includes information relating to their medical history.
 
The current medical process in place may leave a substantial gap in the available information and intelligence assessed at the point of grant or renewal. Medical evidence is pivotal to police decision making.  
 
The introduction of a pre application medical screening will ensure that the firearms licensing department has all the relevant available information as to the suitability of the applicant prior to grant or renewal. This will help to mitigate risk as far as reasonably practicable. This single process will also make the process more streamlined and quicker for applicants, as the police will no longer have to contact the GP and await a reply.
 
Why is Thames Valley Police not complying with Home Office Guidance on this matter?
 
Whilst Home Office Guidance is intended to assist with consistency of practice between forces it is Chief Officers who are ultimately responsible for the administration of firearms licensing in their force area. Home Office Guidance acknowledges this and understands that it may be necessary for forces to depart from the guidance when each case is assessed on its merits and the circumstances justify such a course of action. Home Office Guidance also has no statutory footing and our legal advice is that if harm was done as a result of the police issuing a certificate the responsibility for failing to properly manage the risk, would from a legal perspective, fall to the police.
 
Will there be a fee from my GP?
 
Guidance from the BMA and LMC is very clear that this type of work falls outside of the NHS remit and as such surgeries will request a fee from the applicant.
 email.gif

Message Sent By
Zoe Powderly (Police, Manager, Firearms Licensing )

 

It was actually nearly a month ago they circulated this! :good:

hello, thankyou to post this,

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10 minutes ago, 1066 said:

At times it looks like the medical profession are making it up as they go along too - only this week I read reports that the BMA are going against the governments wishes and deciding not to charge overseas health tourists. What if the BMA executive committee decide that they disagree with private firearm ownership - or once the majority of police forces fall into line, just decide to hike the prices to some astronomical level.

Looking at the BMA guide prices they are already asking £133 for a 30 minute report.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/fees/fee-finder-what-to-charge-your-patients

hello, so health tourists can come in to the the UK and get free NHS and we in the UK have to pay our N I and taxes to pay for it on top of that GP s are going to charge patients those fees as well as the medical assessment letters for FAC/shotgun applications and renewal of £133 if that is what has been stated, as a side note getting a GP appointment is bad enough in most doctors surgeries,  

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1 hour ago, Wingman said:

And what happens if the GP doesnt want to sign it, are they obliged to do so? 

No, they are not obliged to. My current NHS practice that I have used for the past 28 years have an internal policy of not responding to Police requests and will not sign or provide letters. My choice was to obtain a print of my records under the FOI act and attend a consultation at a private Non-NHS) practice. The fee was £85 for the consultation plus £30 for the letter. I am in the process of transfering to another NHS practice, who will produce the required letter for £25.

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45 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

No, they are not obliged to. My current NHS practice that I have used for the past 28 years have an internal policy of not responding to Police requests and will not sign or provide letters. My choice was to obtain a print of my records under the FOI act and attend a consultation at a private Non-NHS) practice. The fee was £85 for the consultation plus £30 for the letter. I am in the process of transfering to another NHS practice, who will produce the required letter for £25.

Where abouts in North Kent are you? I'm moving to Strood soon and will need to find a surgery and £25 sounds reasonable.

Edited by Newbie to this
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3 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

 I'm moving to Strood soon and will need to find a surgery

I am just up the A2 near Meopham. However, I think you are going to have to do a bit of phoning around. Most NHS practices are pretty well subscribed and tend to have catchment areas based on your post code. If you fall outside their catchment area it is highly unlikely they will not take you on. You can avoid the practice at the village of Shorne; that is part of the practice that do not respond to Police requests for info and will not produce or sign letters.

If you get totally stuck PM me. I will let you have details of the private practice in Chatham who will produce the necessary, but at a cost. You need to establish which surgey`s cover your new post code and then contact the Practice Manager to see what their policy is.

 

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36 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

I am just up the A2 near Meopham. However, I think you are going to have to do a bit of phoning around. Most NHS practices are pretty well subscribed and tend to have catchment areas based on your post code. If you fall outside their catchment area it is highly unlikely they will not take you on. You can avoid the practice at the village of Shorne; that is part of the practice that do not respond to Police requests for info and will not produce or sign letters.

If you get totally stuck PM me. I will let you have details of the private practice in Chatham who will produce the necessary, but at a cost. You need to establish which surgey`s cover your new post code and then contact the Practice Manager to see what their policy is.

 

Thanks for that. I've got a few years before renewal but will obviously need to change my surgery as I'm moving too far to remain at my surgery, and this will be high up on the list of priorities.

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