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Is this legal ?


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15 hours ago, Timberwolf00 said:

Cheers guys , so all good then where we have permission from the farmer I can use his gun as long as he is next to me.👍 

 

3 hours ago, Wingman said:

Definitely fine.  I’ve used my mates .308 and 6.5 on land that he has full permission over. 

Are you absolutely certain about this? There's no mention of any words akin to estate rifle, occupier, occupier's servant, ie ghillie, stalker, game keeper. Having permission simply doesn't cut the mustard.

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All I can say is it’s probably best to check with your local firearms officer for the definitive answer. I am going back a bit so quite likely things may have changed. 

Best be safe so you don’t fall foul of the law. 

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Extracted from Countryside Alliance FAQs:

A person who does not hold a firearm certificate may borrow a rifle (the ‘estate rifle’) from the occupier of private land and use it on that land in the presence of the occupier or the occupier’s servant. “Servant” would be taken to include a stalker, gamekeeper or ghillie employed by the occupier.


 


  • · The borrower must be aged 17 years or older. If the borrower is 17 years old, then the lender must be aged 18 years or over.

  • · The rifle may only be used on the occupier’s land.

  • · The occupier’s servant, if accompanying the borrower, must hold a firearm certificate for the estate rifle.

  • · All conditions on the lender’s firearm certificate must be complied with.


  •  

 

Relevant Act(s): Section 16 (1) Firearms Amendment Act 1988

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On 06/07/2019 at 08:36, scarecrow243 said:

you can use a rifle on any estate stalking    you can let someone use your rifle if your a land owner or have shooting rights and you are with them  ie beside them not half way down the field etc etc

And how many on here have shooting rights.

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Just to clarify one important point, you can be accompanied by not only the land owner/shooting rights holder but also by someone who has been given permission "in writing"  from land owner/rights holder. Permission in writing is the key wording of the ammended act, it is illegal to allow someone to use your rifle if your permission is only verbal.

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9 hours ago, scarecrow243 said:

How come when someone asks a question and it gets answered with a few of the same replies somebody else always says all the right replies are wrong

Because most of the replies so far have actually been incorrect

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17 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

any farm i have had permission on with my rifles has given shooting rights  as i always ask for permission to shoot foxes and deer and the geese etc with the shotgun

Simply to clarify things: If for whatever reason and you had done nothing wrong, should you go on any of your farms where you have permission later on today could the farmer tell you that he had withdrawn that permission as of now?

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42 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

any farm i have had permission on with my rifles has given shooting rights  as i always ask for permission to shoot foxes and deer and the geese etc with the shotgun

Rubbish, I don't for one minute believe every farmer you've shot for has just handed over the shooting rights to you. One place I shoot on the shooting rights cost 90,000 and you say you pick these up for free.

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1 hour ago, toontastic said:

Rubbish, I don't for one minute believe every farmer you've shot for has just handed over the shooting rights to you. One place I shoot on the shooting rights cost 90,000 and you say you pick these up for free.

A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'.

Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn at any time without prior notice.

Edited by Penelope
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2 minutes ago, Penelope said:

A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'.

Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn and any time without prior notice.

And someone wrongly believing they have shooting rights could easily find themselves in legal bother.

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47 minutes ago, Penelope said:

A lot of people confuse 'rights' with 'permission'.

Rights are generally bought and paid for, with formal legal documentation in place in the form of a lease. A permission letter does not confer any 'rights' and can be withdrawn at any time without prior notice.

This ^^^^^^^^^^

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A hypothetical question relating to this?

A 16 man DIY game syndicate lease the shooting rights to a farm on a formal annual basis. Two of the syndicate members are named on the lease, but all members pay the same fees and have equal voting rights, generally observed at the AGM.

Who are the 'occupiers', the two named on the lease or all members, given that they have equal rights within the syndicate?

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As below

I hold an open licence and plenty of people have been out in my company and used my rifles. In this respect I have been a "servant" of the occupier in that I have their permission to be on their ground. I have detailed this in the letter I have sent to the Firearms officer when "signing off" peoples mentoring conditions and the FEO has never contacted me to say I am factually incorrect with ref to section 16(1). 

image.png.10f5b952d20a133653730fa15937299a.png

Edited by WelshMike
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53 minutes ago, Penelope said:

A hypothetical question relating to this?

A 16 man DIY game syndicate lease the shooting rights to a farm on a formal annual basis. Two of the syndicate members are named on the lease, but all members pay the same fees and have equal voting rights, generally observed at the AGM.

Who are the 'occupiers', the two named on the lease or all members, given that they have equal rights within the syndicate?

And more to the point who’s liable if anything goes wrong? 

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1 minute ago, Old farrier said:

And more to the point who’s liable if anything goes wrong? 

In what way?

Shooting related accident or injury? All covered in BASC syndicate cover. Guests are also covered under the policy.

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49 minutes ago, WelshMike said:

As below

I hold an open licence and plenty of people have been out in my company and used my rifles. In this respect I have been a "servant" of the occupier in that I have their permission to be on their ground. I have detailed this in the letter I have sent to the Firearms officer when "signing off" peoples mentoring conditions and the FEO has never contacted me to say I am factually incorrect with ref to section 16(1). 

image.png.10f5b952d20a133653730fa15937299a.png

Have you got your permission in writing

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24 minutes ago, toontastic said:

Have you got your permission in writing

Not in all cases. Ironically I havent given myself permission in writing to shoot on my own ground...but its only 28 acres. 

Not sure where the info I posted went...

Try page 40 section 6.21 of the below item

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-201

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