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Timberwolf00

Is this legal ?

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5 minutes ago, WelshMike said:

Not in all cases. Ironically I havent given myself permission in writing to shoot on my own ground...but its only 28 acres. 

Not sure where the info I posted went...

Try page 40 section 6.21 of the below item

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/firearms-law-guidance-to-the-police-201

But that has now been superseded by the policing and crime act 2017. It does away with terms like servant but it states that the person doing any  supervising of unlicensed shooters must have his permission from the land owner in writing.

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toontastic    in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp

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12 minutes ago, toontastic said:

But that has now been superseded by the policing and crime act 2017. It does away with terms like servant but it states that the person doing any  supervising of unlicensed shooters must have his permission from the land owner in writing.

Cheers for the info. To be fair I dont supervise unlicensed shooters. My "supervision" is of licence holders with a mentoring condition.  

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1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said:

toontastic    in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp

You don't need permission letters as apparently all your farmers have given you the shooting rights, I have also never said anyone needs permission letters to go shooting. I did however quote the relevant act from 2017  which says that if an unlicensed shooter is being supervised by someone other than the land owner/rights holder then the person doing the supervision must have written permission from the land owner/rights holder but this law doesn't appear to apply to you.

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11 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

toontastic    in over twenty years of shooting on many farms i have only once been giving a letter saying i have shooting permission i have been asked a few good times by police who i shoot for in the area when i have been stopped when i have given the farmers name and said i have his phone number if you want to phone him they have thats ok they dont need to phone him this has also when out at night with the lamp

I started off with a closed ticket for my rifle and needed a 686 form signing each time. I have carried on with this since the ticket was opened on all of the land that I shoot over. It avoids any ambiguity and i can add notes if there are any shooting exclusions or rules to to be applied and can add contact numbers / names etc. Without it I would find it impossible to keep track of the perms. 

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3 hours ago, Penelope said:

In what way?

Shooting related accident or injury? All covered in BASC syndicate cover. Guests are also covered under the policy.

hypothetically  

 

 If the land owner / tenant wants to claim of the syndicate for damages to crops margins timber or anything else 

ie syndicate members son turns over a quad fuel spills and contamination of the ground/crop 

or he lets his son have a go with a rifle and a stray shot punctuated a grain silo 

who's liable all of you or the two names on the lease or the lad or his parent 

 

Just curious here 

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when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry   you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot

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10 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry   you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoo

If you have the rights to shoot the deer then you'll have a legally binding contract between you and the farmer. 

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17 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry   you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot

NO!

You have permission from the holder of the shooting rights. Two totally different things!

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5 minutes ago, London Best said:

NO!

You have permission from the holder of the shooting rights. Two totally different things!

what on earth are you on about   he or she own the land  if they give you the permission to shoot foxes and deer  and as i said you are the only one who has the authority to shoot foxes and deer you have the shooting rights  i live on a farm and i shoot on the farm  with 12g  .22rf  .243   all legal quarry    so you are saying i dont have shooting rights because i dont pay  say £1000 a year    as i dont pay anything 

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25 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

when a land owner gives you permission to use a rifle on his or her land you should ask are you the only one that has the authority to use a rifle on the land for foxes & deer if he or she says yes then you have the shooting rights for that quarry   you dont need it to be every thing thats legal to shoot

If you have the shooting rights then you'll be able to possibly do a few things. You'll be able to allow whoever you want to come onto the land and shoot the deer, if the land owner wanted to take up stalking you'd be able to stop him shooting deer on the land(as you have the rights) and if you got skint you could always go to an estate agents and sell the rights.

1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said:

what on earth are you on about   he or she own the land  if they give you the permission to shoot foxes and deer  and as i said you are the only one who has the authority to shoot foxes and deer you have the shooting rights  i live on a farm and i shoot on the farm  with 12g  .22rf  .243   all legal quarry    so you are saying i dont have shooting rights because i dont pay  say £1000 a year    as i dont pay anything 

You don't get it do you, shooting rights are part of the estates value they are covered by the deeds of the land. You have permission to shoot not the rights if you had the shooting rights even the land owner couldn't shoot without your say so.

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gods sake i give up i really  do  no matter you can carry on your way and i will carry on my way  as i have said i have had no problem from the police or firearms departments 

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3 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

gods sake i give up i really  do  no matter you can carry on your way and i will carry on my way  as i have said i have had no problem from the police or firearms departments 

I give up as well, I'm sat down with a land agent and a solicitor specialising in shooting rights and you even have both of them baffled.

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Just to clarify the exact wording of the act is :-

 

The first condition is that the borrowing and possession of the rifle or shot gun are for either or both of the following purposes—

(a)

hunting animals or shooting game or vermin;

(b)

shooting at artificial targets.

(3)

The second condition is that the lender—

(a)

is aged 18 or over,

(b)

holds a certificate under this Act in respect of the rifle or shot gun, and

(c)

is either—

(i)

a person who has a right to allow others to enter the premises for the purposes of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

(ii)

a person who is authorised in writing by a person mentioned in sub-paragraph (i) to lend the rifle or shot gun on the premises (whether generally or to persons specified in the authorisation who include the borrower).

(4)

 

So on a farm you either  have to be in a position to control who does or doesn’t  enter the premises for shooting  or have written authority from the person that does have that authority stating  you can lend your gun to others either directly named or  anyone in general .

Permission to shoot even if you are the only one allowed is none of the above. 

 

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every farm i have shot on has allowed me to take other people shooting i always ask the farmer if it is ok

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Without written permission from the farmer  stating you can lend your gun to others and you fall foul of the above act. Verbal permission  is not allowed  under the act it quite clearly states it. 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

every farm i have shot on has allowed me to take other people shooting i always ask the farmer if it is ok

Look at it this way and see if it clarifies matters; even the landowner cannot give anyone permission to shoot on his own land if he doesnt own the shooting rights. 

Our rough shoot is owned by a mate of mine, and there is some great fishing along its perimeters on the Eden, but even he can’t fish it as the rights to fish it belong to a local hotel.  

Edited by Scully

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Still doesn’t alter the fact you need specific written permission from the farmer  to lend your gun to others. 

Unless you are in a position to tell the farmer who can and cannot shoot on his land. 

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1 minute ago, scarecrow243 said:

its like talking to a brick wall     last reply

It is isn't it

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19 minutes ago, toontastic said:

It is isn't it.

 

21 minutes ago, scarecrow243 said:

its like talking to a brick wall     last reply

As there appears to be general acceptance in this topic bar  just the one exception and that exception has now opted out, this would seem the ideal time to finish it.

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