Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 Trump has cancelled delivery and training for Turkeys F35 program, could this be a turning point in his administration? Its due to their receiving their first shipment of Russian S400 SAMS this week.. The idea is , having the 2 weapons systems is incompatible from a security point of view. Basically the S 400 could be 'optimized ' to defeat the stealth capabilities of the F35, or so they say... You would think this could work the other way too, could the weakness's of the S400 be exploited, to the benefit of NATO, if they had units to study ? Either way , its cost Lockeed a lot of money, and bad things happen to American presidents when that happens. Although its been widely reported that Turkish F35s have been delivered, none have left the US training grounds where the pilots WERE in training. Whatever happens, this is going to seriously rile Turkey, and if youre thinking 'So what ?' thats a big lump of NATO real estate, and a jumping off point for some serious refugee numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 minute ago, spurs 14 said: I can see why they don’t want them to have them , but why did turkey go ahead with buying Russian missiles I’m sure that trump would have been happy to sell them the patriot system to go with the jets ,it was Obama who wouldn’t sell to them , that’s a lot of revenue for American company’s , turkey seems a little bit too friendly with Russia especially as they are meant to be a nato aligned country It all depends on what media alignment you choose to read. The left media will say Trump torpedoed the deal, because hes a loose cannon, and Erdogan doesnt deserve them anyway, hes a butcher of Kurds and cosies up to the Russkies... The right will blame Obama for not selling him Patriots, because hes a butcher of Kurds ect ect.. The simple fact is, the S400 is a significantly cheaper system, and may even be superior to patriot. Erdogan probably thought Trump wouldnt pull the plug on 100 aircraft sales, it was a fair bet..but Trumps hands were tied legally to stop the deal. The next thing will be Erdogan ordering 100 Russian planes, then the fun starts.. Like I say, Turkey leaving NATO , and getting closer alignment with Russia isnt a good thing by any stretch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFC Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 of more direct impact on the UK is the fact that the maintenance contract, including the RAF's F35's, was given to Turkey. Lucky that we gave our Harriers to the US, which they then scrapped, and then leased us the F35's.🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 19 minutes ago, KFC said: of more direct impact on the UK is the fact that the maintenance contract, including the RAF's F35's, was given to Turkey. Lets just say Turkey was a partner in maintaining them, but isnt now. One mans loss is anothers gain perhaps ? Im sure I can think of a country close to home who would gladly take on the role... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Rewulf said: It all depends on what media alignment you choose to read. The left media will say Trump torpedoed the deal, because hes a loose cannon, and Erdogan doesnt deserve them anyway, hes a butcher of Kurds and cosies up to the Russkies... The right will blame Obama for not selling him Patriots, because hes a butcher of Kurds ect ect.. The simple fact is, the S400 is a significantly cheaper system, and may even be superior to patriot. Erdogan probably thought Trump wouldnt pull the plug on 100 aircraft sales, it was a fair bet..but Trumps hands were tied legally to stop the deal. The next thing will be Erdogan ordering 100 Russian planes, then the fun starts.. Like I say, Turkey leaving NATO , and getting closer alignment with Russia isnt a good thing by any stretch Yes and YES, word is the Patriot shells of the 90's are somewhat more reliable than their SAM namesakes. Erdogan won't forget in hurry that it was Russia who tipped him off about the Western backed coup attempt, just in time too. Turkey's rationale for the S400 is probably that it makes their skies safe from any possible future threats from the West, should geopolitics change (which they clearly are). It may also be a clever ploy to avoid having to buy the F35 which by all accounts are super expensive, unreliable, turkeys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Posted July 17, 2019 Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 It's likely that western analysis of S-400 has cast doubt on F35's stealth capability to sufficiently defeat it's sensor suite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Hamster said: Erdogan won't forget in hurry that it was Russia who tipped him off about the Western backed coup attempt, just in time too. Turkey's rationale for the S400 is probably that it makes their skies safe from any possible future threats from the West, should geopolitics change (which they clearly are). 18 minutes ago, Hamster said: It may also be a clever ploy to avoid having to buy the F35 which by all accounts are super expensive, unreliable, turkeys. 17 minutes ago, Zapp said: It's likely that western analysis of S-400 has cast doubt on F35's stealth capability to sufficiently defeat it's sensor suite. By all accounts the plane IS a turkey (!) but just the R and D costs are astronomical , never mind the finished costs per unit. The problem with these sort of defence contracts, is that when a NATO partner commits to a purchase , often many many years away from seeing any kind of finished item, that many palms have been greased, that many political and business futures set up, that even when every man and his dog knows the item is obsolete/broken/not fit for the purpose intended, those purchases HAVE to go ahead. This literally happens all the time, and continues to happen, and we get to pay for it. If Erdogan has deliberately pulled out because of this, then I would say thats a very clever move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westward Posted July 18, 2019 Report Share Posted July 18, 2019 The only winner here is Russia. They've played a long game, they don't give a fig for the Kurds which pleases Turkey and now they've started to win it's only a matter of time before they have Turkey fully in their pocket. Since the EU won't let Turkey negotiate membership until they fix their human rights which, of course, like all countries with a Moslem majority, isn't going to happen and with America having snubbed them over F35s, they must feel pretty isolated from the West. And of course it doesn't help that both Erdogan and Trump are loose cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted July 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2019 https://www.news18.com/news/auto/russia-offers-sukhoi-su-35-to-turkey-after-us-removes-from-f-35-programme-2236287.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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