What's to fear?

[reidler]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

doubt it. Think about it

If you've read some of the things people have wrote about him on Facebook I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, and he'd be there with the aim of provoking something like that. It's not the people attending game fair who need to hear the facts and see WJ, CP, Avery for what they are, it's the people who would never go to a game fair. 

[Scully]

1 minute ago, reidler said:

If you've read some of the things people have wrote about him on Facebook I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, and he'd be there with the aim of provoking something like that. It's not the people attending game fair who need to hear the facts and see WJ, CP, Avery for what they are, it's the people who would never go to a game fair. 

I agree with your second sentence completely, but to hurl objects at someone is assault, and I seriously doubt any firearms owners would be so silly, especially with an audience. I know I wouldn’t. 

 

[del.gue]

4 minutes ago, Scully said:

I agree with your second sentence completely, but to hurl objects at someone is assault, and I seriously doubt any firearms owners would be so silly, especially with an audience. I know I wouldn’t. 

 

Yes. But what about the 3 stooges getting an anti to do something? Anyone can buy a ticket.

I was torn between whether it was a good idea or not. On refelection this is a game fair and we dont need balloons like packham ruining a great day.

Surely the powers could arrange for a proper debate, in a studio, were there would be no hiding place.

[Scully]

6 minutes ago, del.gue said:

Yes. But what about the 3 stooges getting an anti to do something? Anyone can buy a ticket.

I was torn between whether it was a good idea or not. On refelection this is a game fair and we dont need balloons like packham ruining a great day.

Surely the powers could arrange for a proper debate, in a studio, were there would be no hiding place.

Seriously? It would still be assault. The conspiracy would be unravelled in court. 

The powers that be did try to arrange what you suggest, and in a studio, but apparently Packham cried wolf then and our organisations cried wolf this time, so it would seem neither side is too keen for whatever reason. 

[del.gue]

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

Seriously? It would still be assault. The conspiracy would be unravelled in court. 

The powers that be did try to arrange what you suggest, and in a studio, but apparently Packham cried wolf then and our organisations cried wolf this time, so it would seem neither side is too keen for whatever reason. 

This is why i im suspicious that packham accepted this invited. We all know he doesnt like to debate, only grandstand. I feel he would be out to cause trouble in some way and set something up to put shooting in a bad light.

Remember he is a narcisist and likes attention especially playing the victim.

[Scully]

But Packham wasn’t the only one to accept the invite as far as I’m aware, but it’s irrelevant now as it would seem everyone is afraid of him. 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor O'Gorman
Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC

[bumpy22]

21 hours ago, oowee said:

All the time in the world for Charlie. What a loss for shooting. 

Totally agree he genuinely is trying his hardest to fight these people who are hell bent on ruining our sport.

As said earlier I am not sure the game fair is the ideal place for this sort of debate. But the likelihood of anyone doing anything stupid at the debate is just ridiculous in my mind. They need a neutral venue again as stated earlier. so that they can try and answer questions which will obviously open the eyes of the public to their lies. if they actually answer the questions truthfully.

I think the problems with basic CA etc is they are worried that it could feed the antis with more ammunition if something went wrong. But we do all need to fight against wild injustice with honest facts and debates that the public cannot argue is the truth

[panoma1]

29 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor O'Gorman
Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC

I suggested a way forward worthy of consideration, in my previous posting? We have individuals capeable of verbally dismantling Packhams anti agenda in a face to face debate..........A high stakes game, but why not call their bluff?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

our cause is right......Call their bluff!

[Smokersmith]

Can’t believe there’s so much debate on this.

Its like inviting Germain Greer to a Bernard Manning gig ...

[Scully]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor O'Gorman
Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC

Reinviting them all to the game fair and allowing CJ to continue as planned would be a good start. 

[KB1]

1 hour ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor O'Gorman
Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC

Engage the services of a TV production company to produce a (Or a series of) professional documentary centred around the conservation aspect of shooting (And possibly other methods), and in doing so you could show the good as well as the bad.  You could also expose the disingenuous nature of Packham and his posse into the bargain😳

BASC TV Productions……. Got a ring to it has that👍😄

You can up my subscription by a couple of quid a year if you make it a regular thing……..

PS.  It's at the gloves off stage, so I would expect to see a lot of BIAS thrown into the mix, just as they do😝

[Old farrier]

Surely someone could point out to the bbc a other organisations 

that 

mr packhams medical condition is deteriorating and affecting his judgment and on these ground he should be suspended until his health improves and he’s had a full medical assessment 

just my thoughts 

of 

[islandgun]

9 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I empathise with all the sentiments expressed thus far and will reflect on all of them. These are challenging times and if any BASC members would like to drop me a line or phone me with ideas and feedback on how BASC should promote and protect shooting that would be most appreciated. PM me and let's discuss further.

Conor O'Gorman
Head of Policy and Campaigns at BASC

good man.. pm on the way

[oowee]

8 hours ago, KB1 said:

Engage the services of a TV production company to produce a (Or a series of) professional documentary centred around the conservation aspect of shooting (And possibly other methods), and in doing so you could show the good as well as the bad.  You could also expose the disingenuous nature of Packham and his posse into the bargain😳

BASC TV Productions……. Got a ring to it has that👍😄

You can up my subscription by a couple of quid a year if you make it a regular thing……..

PS.  It's at the gloves off stage, so I would expect to see a lot of BIAS thrown into the mix, just as they do😝

^^^^^^^^^^^^ This please. Country sports. Look in detail at the population control issues for Bore and Deer, the scale of damage from pigeons and corvids. Focus on a few real characters that have country and wildlife in their blood. 

This is where the cash reserves come in handy.

[Scully]

8 hours ago, KB1 said:

Engage the services of a TV production company to produce a (Or a series of) professional documentary centred around the conservation aspect of shooting (And possibly other methods), and in doing so you could show the good as well as the bad.  You could also expose the disingenuous nature of Packham and his posse into the bargain😳

BASC TV Productions……. Got a ring to it has that👍😄

You can up my subscription by a couple of quid a year if you make it a regular thing……..

PS.  It's at the gloves off stage, so I would expect to see a lot of BIAS thrown into the mix, just as they do😝

I’d agree with much of this; the most difficult part is getting it onto MSM so the general public get the chance to see it. Cinema shorts prior to the main event like there once was would be excellent, but I feel money would be the obstacle there....sponsorship? 

Anyhow, I’m away from today til Monday and not sure if I’ll have internet, so play nice.

I do feel though, that we need to stop dressing up what we do as something else; after all, it is the hunting gene which has got the human race to where it is today, and despite what the naysayers have to say about this, I seriously doubt they would rather be further down the food chain. 

[islandgun]

9 hours ago, KB1 said:

Engage the services of a TV production company to produce a (Or a series of) professional documentary centred around the conservation aspect of shooting (And possibly other methods), and in doing so you could show the good as well as the bad.  You could also expose the disingenuous nature of Packham and his posse into the bargain😳

BASC TV Productions……. Got a ring to it has that👍😄

You can up my subscription by a couple of quid a year if you make it a regular thing……..

PS.  It's at the gloves off stage, so I would expect to see a lot of BIAS thrown into the mix, just as they do😝

Its also very easy to discredit the antis re meat eating, mention the 20 million chickens killed per day ! compare the life of a pheasant to that of a hen ! .. Rabbit and Pigeon, agricultural pests,  are easily the most sustainable food available today including vegetables [perhaps with the exception of home grown]..Vegans ? ask why they want to live in a world without farm animals, or how much of the Brazilian rain forest is felled each day to grow soy

[Conor O'Gorman]

Having received some great suggestions by PM from three Pigeon Watch members, and various other suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from PW members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread  - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Stalking Directory.

[KB1]

32 minutes ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread

Why is that Conor?

[Conor O'Gorman]

Because I think that is the most immediate policy issue as it affects all gun owners in England, Wales and Scotland. Did you have anything else in mind?

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, KB1 said:

Why is that Conor?

Like Conor has said, that does effect all of us. We have alot of things to defend against. The WJ of the world will never be won over, so things lie the consultation that should be impartial is as good a place to start as any. Especially as it could effect our pocket and what we are actually allowed to own / do... 

[Zapp]

3 hours ago, Conor O'Gorman said:

Having received some great suggestions by PM from three Pigeon Watch members, and various other suggestions and comments in this thread, I would like to try canvassing for views on specific policy issues from PW members that will directly feed into policy development at BASC.

I would like to start with the firearms guidance consultation in a new thread  - how does that sound?

I am suggesting the same for members of the Stalking Directory.

Great to hear you've had good feedback from members on here, we are a pretty engaged bunch.  Shame you've not had any uptake elsewhere.  Feel free to start a dedicated thread.

[Teal]

A while back I came across a lot of Moorland Groups on Facebook, they were putting out a lot of photos and updates educating people about management and the positive impact on wildlife, and some great photos of nests and newly hatched chicks. People were sharing the heck out of them.

They were trying to be smeared by some, who said they were run by gamekeepers wives. Whether that's true or not I don't know, and I doubt to many it would matter.

Clarissa and the Countryman used to do quite a good job of telling people about the goings on in the countryside, and I rather suspect that there is a gap. But media has changed, and TV isn't what it was.

If there was some more good research and positive stories that could be published and shared online, I'm sure your members and the general public would help get the word out, if it was well presented.

Fighting WJ (or whoever else) is a battle that can't be won as their minds are fixed. It would be better to focus on the vast middle ground of open minds, with people who are prepared to look at things with fresh eyes.

In another vein, Aldi recently had Scottish wild venison steaks. Would be great if rather than just a few plucked birds in Sainsbury or waitrose, there could be game burgers or pie accessible as a healthy good value option in a bigger chain. 

An easy cooking option open to new consumers. You are in a good position to pitch to supermarkets, and then within the membership can make it happen. Why not find an engaging chef and crowd fund a small kitchen, choose a product such as sausages, burgers and pies that could deliver this. Make it happen.

Heck there could even be a competition on the packet to win a clay shooting lesson, game fair tickets etc.

[motty]

39 minutes ago, Teal said:

A while back I came across a lot of Moorland Groups on Facebook, they were putting out a lot of photos and updates educating people about management and the positive impact on wildlife, and some great photos of nests and newly hatched chicks. People were sharing the heck out of them.

They were trying to be smeared by some, who said they were run by gamekeepers wives. Whether that's true or not I don't know, and I doubt to many it would matter.

Clarissa and the Countryman used to do quite a good job of telling people about the goings on in the countryside, and I rather suspect that there is a gap. But media has changed, and TV isn't what it was.

If there was some more good research and positive stories that could be published and shared online, I'm sure your members and the general public would help get the word out, if it was well presented.

Fighting WJ (or whoever else) is a battle that can't be won as their minds are fixed. It would be better to focus on the vast middle ground of open minds, with people who are prepared to look at things with fresh eyes.

In another vein, Aldi recently had Scottish wild venison steaks. Would be great if rather than just a few plucked birds in Sainsbury or waitrose, there could be game burgers or pie accessible as a healthy good value option in a bigger chain. 

An easy cooking option open to new consumers. You are in a good position to pitch to supermarkets, and then within the membership can make it happen. Why not find an engaging chef and crowd fund a small kitchen, choose a product such as sausages, burgers and pies that could deliver this. Make it happen.

Heck there could even be a competition on the packet to win a clay shooting lesson, game fair tickets etc.

Some good stuff here, Teal. This kind of things should be easy to make happen for an organisation such as BASC.

[Zapp]

12 minutes ago, motty said:

Some good stuff here, Teal. This kind of things should be easy to make happen for an organisation such as BASC.

Really good.  In my opinion a lot of the problems we face are a result of the cognitive dissonance over where meat comes from.  Following WW2 and rationing, I believe people have progressively lost touch with where meat comes from and the implications of eating it.

This has led (again in my opinion) to a situation where most dont want to face the facts about eating meat, and project their guilt about intenisvely reared animals and the massive, intangible industry farming them, onto much more tangible things like the syndicate shoot passing 50 brace to a game dealer, or the pigeon shooter's spoils,  or a wildfowler bringing home a few mallard.

It is small scale and therefore comprehensible to people who just dont think about it, which is why it is easy to attack.  Where would you even start in trying to unpick the mass production of meat?  That IMO leads to the laziness we see whereby consumers of turkey twizzlers man the barricades to stop the procurement and use of truly wild food.  I know people who will eat cheap sausages but who would feel insulted if presented with a roasted pheasant.

It is this dissonance in my view which is the pivotal issue that should be tackled.  Anything that makes people face the willing ignorance of supporting intensively farmed meat whist attacking other means of harvesting the same has to be central to any future strategy.