bostonmick Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said: Well said. As for arming police, can we please get away from this idea that there’s only our model, or the US model of policing? It’s such utter bovine secretion, the very definition of a false dichotomy. Plenty of other countries in Europe routinely arm their officers and don’t have anything like the issues the US does. More than a stab vest? What do you propose exactly? I used to house share with coppers, and I’ve tried on their stab vests; it’s enough doing normal things whilst wearing one, let alone chasing and man-handling toe-rags. I'd like to see you tell a coppers at a briefing they have to wear something even more bulky for 12hrs+2hrs o/t... I don’t think you mean that. You’re on a shooting forum, almost by definition you agree with the general public being armed, as you are the general public. If you mean concealed carry, then….possibly not (though legal in NI, in rare cases). If you mean open carry in large conurbations – and yes I’m resorting to using US terminology for the sake of brevity - then I don’t think there’s any appetite for that either. In the case of stab vests and gangs I would suggest the police be armed if they wish and shoot the scum. One dead knifeman is better than the people he might kill or maime. I shoot for sport. We are all armed for sport and nothing else. As we are talking about the arming of police I thought you would have realised my comment were regarding firearms to the population for protection. And not certificate holders for sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmick Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Westley said: Yes, but, if there was sufficient deterrent value in the sentence, like a minimum of 10 years for any assaults, on any of the Emergency services, regardless of how severe or minor. Why do so many plead not guilty to Murder, but willingly accept a Manslaughter charge, if not for the lesser sentence ? At the moment we are hearing of at least three fatal stabbings a week. Murder carries a life sentence but it has not deterred the gang scum from carrying or using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 I visit Central Europe a lot and all police are armed along with airport security and bank secretory guards and shopping centre guards. All get good training and know how to react and use if the needs arise. What it does do it make the public feel safer and know if some mad machete musl*m or other idiot then they won’t be doing it for very long. It also sounds silly but the police aren’t pushed around as much as here. Generally gets to a point and then they know the repercussions. Id be fully supportive of having a majority of trained officers armed and visible on streets etc. Can’t see anything wrong with it and probably the only police force in the world where a high % aren’t armed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 19, 2019 Report Share Posted August 19, 2019 Quote Id be fully supportive of having a majority of trained officers armed and visible on streets etc. Can’t see anything wrong with it and probably the only police force in the world where a high % aren’t armed. They are still clinging to this British bobby, policing by consent, the UK is that safe we don't need all police armed nonsense. Its not just about police self defence its about protecting the public. People have died because unarmed police were holding back waiting for armed response, the clue is in the name response usually to late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 5 hours ago, bostonmick said: At the moment we are hearing of at least three fatal stabbings a week. Murder carries a life sentence but it has not deterred the gang scum from carrying or using. Firstly, "life" means 'a few years", and the chances of being caught and convicted are probably seen as quite low in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hopefully this sad event will be a wake up call to those in high places and will lead to a change to the `untouchable` status which certain elements on the fringe of normal society seem to have! Everyone feels the same on this ,so why as a country are we tolerating predictable lawlessness????? How many more times will this sort of event happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, matone said: so why as a country are we tolerating predictable lawlessness I suspect the answer to that will lie in the murky world of 'human rights" as applied to "certain elements on the fringe of normal society". It seems that the less "mainstream" you are, the more rights you have ........ or at least the easier it is to use them to your advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, matone said: Hopefully this sad event will be a wake up call to those in high places and will lead to a change to the `untouchable` status which certain elements on the fringe of normal society seem to have! Everyone feels the same on this ,so why as a country are we tolerating predictable lawlessness????? How many more times will this sort of event happen? 13 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said: I suspect the answer to that will lie in the murky world of 'human rights" as applied to "certain elements on the fringe of normal society". It seems that the less "mainstream" you are, the more rights you have ........ or at least the easier it is to use them to your advantage. And of course the wide spread rise of the SNOWFLAKES! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 10 hours ago, dodeer said: I visit Central Europe a lot and all police are armed along with airport security and bank secretory guards and shopping centre guards. All get good training and know how to react and use if the needs arise. What it does do it make the public feel safer and know if some mad machete musl*m or other idiot then they won’t be doing it for very long. It also sounds silly but the police aren’t pushed around as much as here. Generally gets to a point and then they know the repercussions. Id be fully supportive of having a majority of trained officers armed and visible on streets etc. Can’t see anything wrong with it and probably the only police force in the world where a high % aren’t armed. I travel to Venice quite regularly, and the streets are patrolled by at least three different sections of police, always in pairs and always armed. There are butterfly and flick knives for sale in the shops. I’m not saying there’s no crime in Italy, but I sometimes get the impression that in the UK, something is seriously broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonSalop Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, Scully said: I travel to Venice quite regularly, and the streets are patrolled by at least three different sections of police, always in pairs and always armed. There are butterfly and flick knives for sale in the shops. I’m not saying there’s no crime in Italy, but I sometimes get the impression that in the UK, something is seriously broken. Of course something is seriously broken, you are absolutely right. The unheard (vast) majority know it but there are no mainstream politicians who will DO anything, as opposed to merely saying what the electorate wants to hear. The reason they wont do anything is that the snowflakes and human rights brigade are able to provide all kinds of excuses for the various groups predominantly responsible for such heinous crimes. We all know which groups are responsible but will anything ever happen to tackle to root causes? Of course not. In a perfect world I would not want to move away the type of policing we have in the UK. Having been on the wrong end of a Russian officer (he'd asked me if I was afraid of him - I said no and he hit me with a baton! My Russian colleague reckoned it was because Russian police require the public fear them and that fear equals respect for them). I want to be able to engage in civilised conversation with our coppers, not be afraid of them. Instead, politicians with balls need to take action that tackles the issues surrounding criminality. That said, yes, I would arm our police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 hello, on the news today they said all Police Officers will be issued Tasers, i thought this was already done ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 hour ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, on the news today they said all Police Officers will be issued Tasers, i thought this was already done ?? Not all, majority have a baton only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, on the news today they said all Police Officers will be issued Tasers, i thought this was already done ?? I believe this was only Nottinghamshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 29 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: I believe this was only Nottinghamshire. hello, todays Metro stated all front line police officers in Northhamptonshire, i am sure other Police forces will follow on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, todays Metro stated all front line police officers in Northhamptonshire, i am sure other Police forces will follow on, My bad - wrong N=shire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westley Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 18 hours ago, bostonmick said: At the moment we are hearing of at least three fatal stabbings a week. Murder carries a life sentence but it has not deterred the gang scum from carrying or using. AND then pleading guilty to MANSLAUGHTER and getting 4 to 6 years 3 hours ago, dodeer said: Not all, majority have a baton only Plus CS gas or similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
das Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 On 16/08/2019 at 13:52, JohnfromUK said: It is a very sad thing - but I don't think arming police is the right answer. Possibly more armed police might help, but to have every policeman armed and with suitable training etc. is too much. Carrying arms is a huge responsibility - and one many police may not want. In my view, MUCH tougher sentences and making the risk of getting caught - and the resultant punishment a very strong deterrent is the way to go. Agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 6 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, on the news today they said all Police Officers will be issued Tasers, i thought this was already done ?? Ho, but if they are issuing all with tasers that takes away the affordably argument as tasers are a lot more expensive than the issue Glock. Taser £1200 Glock £450. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 1 minute ago, ordnance said: Ho, but if they are issuing all with tasers that takes away the affordably argument as tasers are a lot more expensive than the issue Glock. Taser £1200 Glock £450. hello, they said it will cost Northampton force £180,000 to £220,000 to train their officers, so looks like would not include cost of taser, seem rather a lot of money a £1,200? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordnance Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said: hello, they said it will cost Northampton force £180,000 to £220,000 to train their officers, so looks like would not include cost of taser, seem rather a lot of money a £1,200? Quote 20 Jun 2017 - Britain's top police chief says increasing the number of officers carrying ... It costs about £1,500, and is three times more expensive than a Glock ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 8 hours ago, WestonSalop said: (he'd asked me if I was afraid of him - I said no and he hit me with a baton! Sorry but I couldn't help laughing out loud at this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonSalop Posted August 20, 2019 Report Share Posted August 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Sorry but I couldn't help laughing out loud at this! The situation my colleague and I found ourselves in was as a result of a vodka fuelled session and a damsel in distress. I vowed never to be the knight in shining armour ever again. Certainly wasn't funny at the time but when I came home a week or so later and told HRH, she pretty much wet herself. No sympathy at all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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