BREXIT

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Dave-G said:

I think the reality of life is that chitty chitty bang bang leaders of the last 40 odd years have deliberately lied to us and allowed Europe to sly us up in knots that are proving very difficult to slip out of.

We have been disengaged from Europe. Our party political adversarial parliamentary democracy is not equiped to deal with the integrated affairs of the modern world. We are living in the past and our system of politics reflects that. 

[Rewulf]

5 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

This

The country is divided all because of tory party infighting over the past 40+ yrs over the EU 

Err, thats not a question, its a statement , but I answered it anyway.

 

52 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So labour have never argued about it , Corbyn is anti EU , and always has been, but he puts his party before the country.

 

14 minutes ago, oowee said:

Nothing to do with the Kipper sacking his MP's. Oh did you want to blame the sacking on Corby surely you forgot Di in the process? 

You would have Corby as PM , rather than Boris, err , OK then.
Good job its never going to happen 

 

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

There are no unicorns either. 

The only people who talk about unicorns , are of the remain variety, but whatever floats ya boat !

[oowee]

The kipper said.

27th of June. The odds of no deal Brexit are a million to one. 

16th of August. The chance of getting a deal is slim. 

. 

[Newbie to this]

19 minutes ago, Capt Christopher Jones said:

The country is divided all because of tory party infighting over the past 40+ yrs over the EU 

This country is divided because the anti-democratic losers will not accept the result.

For democracy to work you have to have losers consent.

[oowee]

10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

This country is divided because the anti-democratic losers will not accept the result.

Maybe if the process was run constructively the vast majority of people would be onboard.

For democracy to work you have to have losers consent.

 Surely we want a win win for all? 

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

 Surely we want a win win for all? 

Do you recall any election - ever - where everyone was a winner?

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I think youre missing the elephant in the room here.
The EU will hinder us in any way to prevent Brexit, ANY Brexit.
So have they EVER negotiated in good faith ?

Look at it this way, they put forward 'Mays' deal (WA written by them , for them) which was roundly thrown out of the commons 3 times, mostly by the same people who have put the remove no deal vote through now.
The EU have flatly refused to change any aspect of that deal.
So by removing no deal, and not voting for the only deal available, they hope to usurp the vote for leaving entirely.
Now tell me the EU want to negotiate, now tell me these people, whos wages we pay , are acting with integrity.

I think the EU and Parliament / MPs need to be separated. It is not in the EUs interest to give us a great deal and as I have mentioned before that:

• put us on a hiding to nothing in the first place
• was one of the reasons I decided not to vote leave

The one thing that both sides seem to agree on is the fact that the WA is pants. Why should the MPs be forced to choose between no deal and the WA?

Who are they serving then, their constituents ? The country ? The minority who wanted to remain, where is THEIR mandate ?
They have took it upon themselves to decide whats best for us ?

Not really, their constituents voted them in on the basis that they were the best candidate to do what is best for the constituency, if their constituents no longer feel that way then they can displace them at the next GE (or in extreme cases through votes of no confidence)

The evidence points squarely toward it being THEIR decision , therefore they are serving themselves.

That logic really does not hold, yes it's their decision, so they could equally be serving what they believe is best for their constituents. I still don't really get the Leave argument about how it is in a MPs personal or professional interest for us to be in the EU.

As above, for who ?
Where is the evidence to say they are serving those who voted for them ?

Isn't this about different perspectives, hence the circular argument....

That really depends on who wins.
If Brexit is a success , they will go down as turncoats, traitors.

Where is there a shred of evidence to suggest Brexit is going to be a success?
Or if in 20 years time, and we are a minor backwater of the EUSS,  they will be heroes.

And if we leave and decline further?

 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Do you recall any election - ever - where everyone was a winner?

Exactly this 

[Good shot?]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

No.
I do believe some of them are also in the pay of either the EU , or business figures who support the EU project.
Their behaviour defies any other explanation.

Whilst watching the debate last night in Parliament and during a particular speech by a Brexiteer I am sure he made a comment regarding the immediate passage of the gist of discussions and debate to someone in the EU. 

In fact he said at the time (pointing to someone present) “there is one now”.

I don’t think l misread the situation.

If that is so why is it allowed/condoned?

Edited September 5, 2019 by Good shot?
Spelling

[KB1]

It beggars belief, some of the arguments/disagreements on this thread🙄.  Isn't it as simple as - Do you, or do you not agree with democracy?????   Like I've said previously, I will personally be financially better off if we stay in the EU, but the country was given a 'CHOICE', and the 'LEAVE' votes won the toss………  I can accept that it was a democratic vote, and that BREXIT should therefore go ahead, AND ALL political parties should respect democracy, and get on with preparing the road ahead!  Every single MP opposing the democratic BREXIT vote, should be thrown out of government for that reason alone!

I'm sure some on here will have a myriad of reasons why we shouldn't leave…….. We didn't know this, we didn't know that, they're trying to stop a catastrophe etc., but a far bigger catastrophe than leaving the EU, is the government reneging on a democratic vote.  Is it too far fetched to think that 52% of the country could sue the government for breach of contract😳or something along those lines?

Anyway, if we stay in the EU, democracy as written in the English Dictionary will have to be re-defined🤔

[JohnfromUK]

/\ +1

[welsh1]

3 hours ago, oowee said:

Are you happy that the Tories brought in the most ill considered referendum in history. Are you happy that the whole sorry affair has been created by this government. Well strangely enough neither are the other 34m voters in this country. 

First you have to get serious with the proposal and set out what you want from it working within the trading framework that the EU has. Then you might stand a chance of sorting it out. It seems like Norway, Canada, Switzerland et al brokered deals that they are happy with but that the UK with its clear understanding of all things EU is unable to. 

Why do you think that is? Do you think it might be because we have a rather stupid government that is caught between the ridiculous promises it made to voters and the reality of life? 

A referendum was laid before parliament, they chose the question on the ballot paper, after 17.4 million people chose to leave and were the majority parliament then passed a law voting overwhelmingly for article 50. let's throw in an election where parties stood on the leave ticket and virtually every mp promised to respect the result, and then add in the euro elections where the country once again let people know which way they wanted to go.
If after all that you believe it is simply the tories fault then you are a lost cause.

Do you think we can ever negotiate another deal when europe know they just have to say they won't renegotiate because the government have been neutered, not just this government but any government that comes along.

The people have made it very clear what they want, the MP's set it up and made it law, you mention a stupid government, i think you should include the even stupider opposition, there will be an election, people will not forget what mp's have done.

 

[Good shot?]

What happens when this law is passed forcing the PM to ask for and accept a further delay If he refuses to do so which he has stated more than once ( and he goes straight to jail) what happens if Corben still backs down from an election.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

The people have made it very clear what they want, the MP's set it up and made it law, you mention a stupid government, i think you should include the even stupider opposition.

Exactly.

[Mice!]

35 minutes ago, KB1 said:

It beggars belief, some of the arguments/disagreements on this thread🙄.  Isn't it as simple as - Do you, or do you not agree with democracy?????   Like I've said previously, I will personally be financially better off if we stay in the EU, but the country was given a 'CHOICE', and the 'LEAVE' votes won the toss………  I can accept that it was a democratic vote, and that BREXIT should therefore go ahead, AND ALL political parties should respect democracy, and get on with preparing the road ahead!  Every single MP opposing the democratic BREXIT vote, should be thrown out of government for that reason alone!

I'm sure some on here will have a myriad of reasons why we shouldn't leave…….. We didn't know this, we didn't know that, they're trying to stop a catastrophe etc., but a far bigger catastrophe than leaving the EU, is the government reneging on a democratic vote.  Is it too far fetched to think that 52% of the country could sue the government for breach of contract😳or something along those lines?

Anyway, if we stay in the EU, democracy as written in the English Dictionary will have to be re-defined🤔

on the money, I can understand if an MPs constituents voted remain, but all those going against what was voted for?? Sack them.

[ratchers]

5 hours ago, oowee said:

Is that the 20 mp's he kicked out to make them independents? 

I think Corbyn would be right to say no to a GE until after an extension. He would have destroyed Boris who must leave after requesting an extension. JC would have demonstrated that he has listened to his party and taken a pragmatic approach to the issues. Interesting at PMQ's faced with the Kipper in a tail spin that he kept his cool and certainly looked more like a PM in waiting. 

The kippers antics show him to be that delinquent public school boy that he is. 

Had to laugh at the arrogant pose of Moggy the other night showing his contempt for parliament. They are not helping themselves. 

That lets the women off the hook then. 

Apologies, of course, his or her constituency!

[islandgun]

22 minutes ago, Mice! said:

on the money, I can understand if an MPs constituents voted remain, but all those going against what was voted for?? Sack them.

exactly.  Britain's parliament was described as the mother of parliaments, well its looking like she has died.. 

[Good shot?]

Boris will not ask/beg for an extension IMO.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Good shot?

[hedge]

5 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

Boris will not ask/beg for an extension IMO.

What makes you say that? 😏

 

 

[Good shot?]

Apart from that comment today he has already recently said that under no circumstances would he ask for a delay and who could blame him.It is not the bluster  he has been accused of.

on a recent post of mine I asked what will happen if he does not request an extension and Corben still will not go for an election.

Can anyone enlighten me on that.😀

Edited September 5, 2019 by Good shot?

[Mice!]

48 minutes ago, Good shot? said:

Apart from that comment today he has already recently said that under no circumstances would he ask for a delay and who could blame him.It is not the bluster  he has been accused of.

on a recent post of mine I asked what will happen if he does not request an extension and Corben still will not go for an election.

Can anyone enlighten me on that.😀

Something on the news today about a one line thing Boris can do to force an election, didn't catch it all or understand it? Otherwise I guess we just keep going round and round 

[Good shot?]

I would be more concerned that Corben may find a way to install himself as PM without an election as he has already attempted.

[Saltings]

at the moment I think we have the worst case of backstabbing self riotous MPs in modern  history  

 constituents vote to leave and their representative MP says no they are wrong and vote against them   (god help them when they want re electing) 

if we had an election there's every chance Nigel  Farage   could run away with it then we would leave

Boris,  fair play is doing his best  but he might get shafted 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Saltings

[Mice!]

Anyone watching QT? Lot of sense being talked but not by the panel, Labour lass says it's a national crisis so can't go to an election?? Scottish snp Ian Blackford might still be talking tomorrow before he answers a question, he wants an election but won't say when, but says snp will win every seat in Scotland, wants an election as soon as possible?? But won't give a date.

now Labour lass is again saying Boris is a Lier but won't answer the question 😵😵😵😵 

Emily Thornberry, kept missing her name.

The audience are bang on the money and Ian Dale is sticking it to them 😄 

Edited September 5, 2019 by Mice!
added bits

[ShootingEgg]

Wow well bbqt ended up the labour snp and lib dem show. What an utter joke of a show..