BREXIT

[islandgun]

Perhaps the city is looking forward to bankrolling a labour gov when it starts spending

[sportsbob]

Not too much in msm 

 

[Rewulf]

23 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Perhaps the city is looking forward to bankrolling a labour gov when it starts spending

There is that, but above all, investment banks 'banking' on chaos and strong market fluctuations? 

Who'd  have thought it? 😂

[Retsdon]

20 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Perhaps the city is looking forward to bankrolling a labour gov when it starts spending

Have you seen Javid's list of spending promises? But of course this government probably doesn't expect to he believed anyway.....

No, I think the City boys can see all the corporate funding and IPO work moving to Frankfurt when Britain loses European passporting rights . Naturally Citibank and Deutsche themselves can expand their existing offices inside the Single Market or open new ones, but their City of London people will feel a hell of a draught. And of course, once the work has gone it's never coming back again. 

[Retsdon]

18 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

There is that, but above all, investment banks 'banking' on chaos and strong market fluctuations? 

Who'd  have thought it? 😂

Haha, when all else fails there's always the conspiracy theory gambit!

But, if the City loves chaos, how come it's always been 100 percent for the Tories until now then?

 

[Rewulf]

38 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Haha, when all else fails there's always the conspiracy theory gambit!

 

What conspiracy? 

Static markets won't make any money will they? Corbyn as PM means profit for city firms, its bonanza time when labour hits town! 

41 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But, if the City loves chaos, how come it's always been 100 percent for the Tories until now then?

As far as I know it doesn't get to pick the government, we do. 

[redial]

The BBC will report several million remainers on the streets and a handful of Brexit supporters.

[Scully]

4 hours ago, Retsdon said:

Quentin Soames sticking it to the Cult.

“I am worried about the Tory party because give or take the odd spasm we have always been seen as pragmatic, sensible, good at our job, sane, reasonable and having the interests of the whole country. Now it is beginning to look like a Brexit sect.”

And as for the recumbent Moggie..” an absolute fraud” ....“a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice”. 

I like the bit about his suit...ouch!

Just our of interest , can I ask if you believe the democratically arrived at referendum result should be honoured? 

[Gordon R]

Scully - you won't get a straight answer. It will be answered with conditions, unlike the real Referendum. It's truly pathetic.

[Yellow Bear]

10 minutes ago, Scully said:

Just our of interest , can I ask if you believe the democratically arrived at referendum result should be honoured? 

only if it suits his personal agenda

[Retsdon]

2 hours ago, Scully said:

Just our of interest , can I ask if you believe the democratically arrived at referendum result should be honoured? 

Yes, it should. But that's not the same thing as 'it must'. And the conundrum is that this Tory government made such a hash of the mandate they were given that it can't be done anymore without doing massive irreparable damage to whole sectors of the British economy. And no responsible government should or can legitimately trash the lives and livelihoods of large numbers of its citizens for purely political reasons. The country is not at war.

The biggest issue of me is that so much of the debate is based on a fantasy. It's simply not true that everything will be fine and the country can happily trade away under WTO rules while countries  come beating a path to London to offer fantastic and favourable trade deals. That's a fiction - a straightforward, unabridged fiction that was pedalled by a professional campaign team whose job was to win the vote at any cost, and I highly recommend Tim Shipman's excellent book 'All Out War - The Full Story of Brexit' to anyone who is interested in a fly on the wall account of how this kind of modern political campaign of this kind is run, and an insight into the kind of thinking behind it. Winning is the sole benchmark by which professional campaigners judge success. Veracity is simply not on the radar.

Anway, back in the real world the only country that relies exclusively on WTO rules  is Mauritania. Pretty much everyone else is in regional trade blocs.

So assuming we don't want to join Mauritania we need access to a regional trade bloc. And where's our regional trade bloc? Quite, the EEA. 

Therefore we need a deal with the EU.  We eventually decided that we didn't  like the terms on offer in the one our government negotiated for and signed, so we refused it. But we still need one. And here we are. We can go the Mauritania route or just suck it up. There really isn't another way.

Welcome to being a small fish. Inside the EU, for better or worse, we had a seat the table; we could veto or lobby against EU decisions that we didn't like, etc. etc. And as part of the world's second largest trade bloc we actually had power to influence regulations, trade terms, tariffs, etc on a global scale. Outside we're a third party country and nobody, including the EU, owes us any favours at all. If trade is to the EU's advantage we'll get it. If it's not  - it's suck it up time again. And you know, it'll be the same story with the the Americans and NAFTA, the South Americans and MERCOSUR, the Asian and ASEAN,  the Chinese.... It'll be endless negotiation from a position of weakness. India has already said the favourable visa and immigration rules  for migrants from the sub continent will be on their list of demands. The EU has already said that fishing rights in UK waters for European boats will be on theirs. And so on and so forth. All these trade agreements will come with strings attached. And having just sabotaged 48% of our international trade, what are we going to do? Correct - suck it up.

Brexit seemed like a good idea at the time, and it might have been had it been handled in an adult manner. Instead, the people in charge ended up believing their own propaganda. And now, the only thing coming down the pike from a No Deal Brexit will be an endless series of national humiliations. Well, I'm not sure that was what you voted for. But if that's what you want...

2 hours ago, Yellow Bear said:

only if it suits his personal agenda

I have enough in a bank account that they don't charge me fees, and the pitiful national old age pension that I've paid in for is coming in a few years time. Other than that, I have no financial interest inside the country anymore. Although if Boris gets his no deal and sterling goes south ...who knows? But Britain is where I'm from, and it's my country. I have no other. So my agenda is, I suppose, just old-fashioned patriotism.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Retsdon

[Dave-G]

14 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So assuming we don't want to join Mauritania we need access to a regional trade bloc. And where's our regional trade bloc? Quite, the EEA. 

Therefore we need a deal with the EU, but we didn't like the terms on offer so we refused it. But we still need it. And here we are. We can go the Mauritania route or just suck it up. There really isn't another way.

.

I put it to the honourable gentleman that there is another way, that some are trying to acheive... a trade only agreement that isn't wrapped up in domineering politics.

[Retsdon]

16 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

.. a trade only agreement that isn't wrapped up in domineering politics.

Sure, the EU will sign a free trade agreement with us. Why not. It has free trade agreements of some sort or another with most of the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

But what it won't do is give us access to the Single Market unless we are in the Single Market's regulatory orbit like the EEA countries are. And without access to the single market we'll get market access to what they want us to have access to, and be denied what they don't want us to have access to. In other words in a world of givers and takers, we'll be the ones taking it.

Edited September 7, 2019 by Retsdon

[KB1]

28 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I put it to the honourable gentleman that there is another way, that some are trying to acheive... a trade only agreement that isn't wrapped up in domineering politics.

+1

45 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Welcome to being a small fish. Inside the EU, for better or worse

Only, we've never traditionally been a small fish……..  and without the EU laws currently stifling the UK in many aspects, we would be free to be that big fish once again👍

Edited September 7, 2019 by KB1

[Retsdon]

5 minutes ago, KB1 said:

Only, we've never been a small fish…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_bloc#/media/File:GDP_PPP_2018_Selection.svg

OK, we wouldn't get thrown back.  But by international standards we're not big either.  Perhaps just big enough to keep and eat for breakfast?

10 minutes ago, KB1 said:

and without the EU laws currently stifling the UK in many aspects,

How does the EU stifle us? I've never understood this line. 

[islandgun]

51 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Yes, it should. But that's not the same thing as 'it must'. And the conundrum is that this Tory government made such a hash of the mandate they were given that it can't be done anymore without doing massive irreparable damage to whole sectors of the British economy. And no responsible government should or can legitimately trash the lives and livelihoods of large numbers of its citizens for purely political reasons. The country is not at war.

The biggest issue of me is that so much of the debate is based on a fantasy. It's simply not true that everything will be fine and the country can happily trade away under WTO rules while countries  come beating a path to London to offer fantastic and favourable trade deals. That's a fiction - a straightforward, unabridged fiction that was pedalled by a professional campaign team whose job was to win the vote at any cost, and I highly recommend Tim Shipman's excellent book 'All Out War - The Full Story of Brexit' to anyone who is interested in a fly on the wall account of how this kind of modern political campaign of this kind is run, and an insight into the kind of thinking behind it. Winning is the sole benchmark by which professional campaigners judge success. Veracity is simply not on the radar.

Anway, back in the real world the only country that relies exclusively on WTO rules  is Mauritania. Pretty much everyone else is in regional trade blocs.

So assuming we don't want to join Mauritania we need access to a regional trade bloc. And where's our regional trade bloc? Quite, the EEA. 

Therefore we need a deal with the EU.  We eventually decided that we didn't  like the terms on offer in the one our government negotiated for and signed, so we refused it. But we still need one. And here we are. We can go the Mauritania route or just suck it up. There really isn't another way.

Welcome to being a small fish. Inside the EU, for better or worse, we had a seat the table; we could veto or lobby against EU decisions that we didn't like, etc. etc. And as part of the world's second largest trade bloc we actually had power to influence regulations, trade terms, tariffs, etc on a global scale. Outside we're a third party country and nobody, including the EU, owes us any favours at all. If trade is to the EU's advantage we'll get it. If it's not  - it's suck it up time again. And you know, it'll be the same story with the the Americans and NAFTA, the South Americans and MERCOSUR, the Asian and ASEAN,  the Chinese.... It'll be endless negotiation from a position of weakness. India has already said the favourable visa and immigration rules  for migrants from the sub continent will be on their list of demands. The EU has already said that fishing rights in UK waters for European boats will be on theirs. And so on and so forth. All these trade agreements will come with strings attached. And having just sabotaged 48% of our international trade, what are we going to do? Correct - suck it up.

Brexit seemed like a good idea at the time, and it might have been had it been handled in an adult manner. Instead, the people in charge ended up believing their own propaganda. And now, the only thing coming down the pike from a No Deal Brexit will be endless national humiliation. Well, I'm not sure that was what you voted for. But if that's what you want...

I have enough in a bank account that they don't charge me fees, and the pitiful national old age pension that I've paid in for coming in a few years time. Other than that, I have no financial interest inside the country anymore. Although if Boris gets his no deal and sterling goes south ...who knows? But Britain is where I'm from, and it's my country. I have no other. So my interest is, I suppose, old-fashioned patriotism.

That all reads like a plagiarism from one of Tim Shipmans work of fiction

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, islandgun said:

That all reads like a plagiarism from one of Tim Shipmans work of fiction

I've only ever read his Brexit book. So not an expert on him.

So where are the fictions in my post? That Mauritania is the only country trading under WTO rules? That the EU won't/can't allow us in the Single Market without regulatory conformity? That India has said visa rule relaxation will be on the agenda at post Brexit trade talks? That the EU is highly influential in setting the global trade agenda? 

You say my post reads like a work of fiction. Tell me where what I've said isn't true and I'll happily correct it.

[islandgun]

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I've only ever read his Brexit book. So not an expert on him.

So where are the fictions in my post? That Mauritania is the only country trading under WTO rules? That the EU won't/can't allow us in the Single Market without regulatory conformity? That India has said visa rule relaxation will be on the agenda at post Brexit trade talks? That the EU is highly influential in setting the global trade agenda? 

You say my post reads like a work of fiction. Tell me where what I've said isn't true and I'll happily correct it.

I said it reads like plagiarism because that how it reads, as to the rest i  dont care,  TBH its looking like you are the only person that does care, good luck with that..😉

[Retsdon]

10 minutes ago, islandgun said:

TBH its looking like you are the only person that does care, good luck with that..😉

 Apart from those of us on Lewis or in Saudi, I imagine that most PWers  have more fun things to do on a Saturday night than hang around here!   But never mind, it's bed time for me anyway.

It's only politics. You go well.

Incidentally, my post wasn't plagiarized in any way at all. That's just how I write. Can't help it!

Edited September 7, 2019 by Retsdon

[JRDS]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Yes, it should. But that's not the same thing as 'it must'. And the conundrum is that this Tory government made such a hash of the mandate they were given that it can't be done anymore without doing massive irreparable damage to whole sectors of the British economy. And no responsible government should or can legitimately trash the lives and livelihoods of large numbers of its citizens for purely political reasons. The country is not at war.

The biggest issue of me is that so much of the debate is based on a fantasy. It's simply not true that everything will be fine and the country can happily trade away under WTO rules while countries  come beating a path to London to offer fantastic and favourable trade deals. That's a fiction - a straightforward, unabridged fiction that was pedalled by a professional campaign team whose job was to win the vote at any cost, and I highly recommend Tim Shipman's excellent book 'All Out War - The Full Story of Brexit' to anyone who is interested in a fly on the wall account of how this kind of modern political campaign of this kind is run, and an insight into the kind of thinking behind it. Winning is the sole benchmark by which professional campaigners judge success. Veracity is simply not on the radar.

Anway, back in the real world the only country that relies exclusively on WTO rules  is Mauritania. Pretty much everyone else is in regional trade blocs.

So assuming we don't want to join Mauritania we need access to a regional trade bloc. And where's our regional trade bloc? Quite, the EEA. 

Therefore we need a deal with the EU.  We eventually decided that we didn't  like the terms on offer in the one our government negotiated for and signed, so we refused it. But we still need one. And here we are. We can go the Mauritania route or just suck it up. There really isn't another way.

Welcome to being a small fish. Inside the EU, for better or worse, we had a seat the table; we could veto or lobby against EU decisions that we didn't like, etc. etc. And as part of the world's second largest trade bloc we actually had power to influence regulations, trade terms, tariffs, etc on a global scale. Outside we're a third party country and nobody, including the EU, owes us any favours at all. If trade is to the EU's advantage we'll get it. If it's not  - it's suck it up time again. And you know, it'll be the same story with the the Americans and NAFTA, the South Americans and MERCOSUR, the Asian and ASEAN,  the Chinese.... It'll be endless negotiation from a position of weakness. India has already said the favourable visa and immigration rules  for migrants from the sub continent will be on their list of demands. The EU has already said that fishing rights in UK waters for European boats will be on theirs. And so on and so forth. All these trade agreements will come with strings attached. And having just sabotaged 48% of our international trade, what are we going to do? Correct - suck it up.

Brexit seemed like a good idea at the time, and it might have been had it been handled in an adult manner. Instead, the people in charge ended up believing their own propaganda. And now, the only thing coming down the pike from a No Deal Brexit will be an endless series of national humiliations. Well, I'm not sure that was what you voted for. But if that's what you want...

I have enough in a bank account that they don't charge me fees, and the pitiful national old age pension that I've paid in for is coming in a few years time. Other than that, I have no financial interest inside the country anymore. Although if Boris gets his no deal and sterling goes south ...who knows? But Britain is where I'm from, and it's my country. I have no other. So my agenda is, I suppose, just old-fashioned patriotism.

You love this country so much you live in Saudi, why don't you keep your nose out nowt to do with you if you can't be ***** to live here! 

Edited September 7, 2019 by JRDS

[Bazooka Joe]

I'm even more confused now, just received an email from BoJo.

Must have a plan B, how's he going to get around this one.

 

Quote

The truth is I don’t want an election. I want to get on with the job – leaving the EU by October 31st and investing in the country’s priorities. Like hospitals, police and schools.

But Labour MPs have left us no choice. They just passed a law that would force me to beg Brussels for an extension to the Brexit deadline.

This is something I will never do.

This would cause more delay and more chaos. And that means our economy would suffer and our priorities would be ignored. I won’t accept Labour’s delay.

 

[Retsdon]

6 minutes ago, JRDS said:

You love this country so much you live in Saudi, why don't you keep your nose out nowt to do with you! 

Do you know why I'm stuck in f"""ing Saudi? while my British, native English speaking kids who I don't see for months on end grow up under a military dictatorship 4,000 miles from me?

I'll say what I want about this useless government!

[Dave-G]

Bear with me here because I really don't know the answer - and I'm slightly dyslexic so might word it wong; I saw something about Bojo might resign and cause an election but crazy as it sounds, if he really wants to get a result at ANY cost - including his own.

 Is it feasible for him to make a run at no confidence in the conservative party (just because they deserve it and to get revenge on the plotters) and cause an election that way? Political suicide I know but he's backed himself into a corner I think.

[armsid]

it won,t be long to nov.5

[islandgun]

37 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 Apart from those of us on Lewis or in Saudi, I imagine that most PWers  have more fun things to do on a Saturday night than hang around here!   But never mind, it's bed time for me anyway.

It's only politics. You go well.

Incidentally, my post wasn't plagiarized in any way at all. That's just how I write. Can't help it!

Edited September 7, 2019 by islandgun