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JohnfromUK
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3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

There is no mandate for no deal

Yes there is! The referendum asked "in or out" the vote was out!........ No conditions were attached, that's the mandate, just get us "out".......claiming there is no mandate for leaving without a deal, is remainer prevarication!

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30 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’d be willing to bet we don’t leave; wonder what odds I’d get at the bookies? 🙂

A very healthy 7/2 return , sometimes fluctuating to 4/1

Odds on not leaving on 31/10 are 2/9

But stack that against us not voting to leave in 2016, I got 10/1 on an offer , but 7 or 8/1 wasnt unusual.
Just goes to show, how tricky it is to predict such things.
Odds, by their very nature, are a distraction.

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19 minutes ago, Scully said:

I’d be willing to bet we don’t leave; wonder what odds I’d get at the bookies? 🙂

On the contrary, I'd say that if it weren't  for concerns about a chaotic Brexit plunging Ireland into recession  we'd be out already. So perhaps we'll see one final extension to allow more time for Ireland to prepare and perhaps to get some financial support measures for her in place, and then I think the EU is going to pull the plug. There's no proper plan whatsoever coming out of Britain from either side of the domestic Brexit fence, nor does there look like there's one in the offing. So from an EU perspective it would better to just knock this whole thing on the head and move on. If Britain then comes back wanting access to European markets she can meet the terms on offer or do the other thing. With the UK outside with no European rights looking in, the EU's trade negotiating position is unassailable.

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31 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Yes there is! The referendum asked "in or out" the vote was out!........ No conditions were attached, that's the mandate, just get us "out".......claiming there is no mandate for leaving without a deal, is remainer prevarication!

If that were true then we should have left shortly after the referendum, we didn't, so a deal is as much part of the process as no deal.

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3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

That makes NO sense.
The Brexit party wouldnt even exist if it wasnt for the fact the ref result hasnt been adhered to.

“If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

😂

Really , what sterotype, the one where you expect a winning vote to be honoured ?

Re-read what you posted, I'll leave the rest for you to work out 😉

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22 minutes ago, henry d said:

If that were true then we should have left shortly after the referendum, we didn't, so a deal is as much part of the process as no deal.

We didn't leave shortly after the referendum because the government claimed it was better to give it time and leave with a deal....we did not know then that the remainers in government aided and abetted by the EU would scupper any hope of an acceptable "deal"....the next step was for the remainers to take away the UK's main bargaining chip of leaving without a deal, scuppering any chance of leaving without a "deal"

Cant get an acceptable deal, can't leave without a deal.....

it doesn't need a university degree to work out Parliament are trying to prevent any sort of Brexit from the EU, because it is made up overwhelmingly by remainers....who have set themselves against both democracy, and the people! 

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3 hours ago, Scully said:

A threat? 😂 Of what?

Civil unrest? Dunno, you tell me?

We ain’t leaving.

I think you are right.

 

3 hours ago, discobob said:

There doesn't need to be a mandate. According to https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

To Quote

"The Union and the Member State wishing to withdraw have a time-frame of two years to agree on these
arrangements. After that, membership ends automatically, unless the European Council
and the Member State concerned jointly decide to extend this period (Article 50(3) TEU)."

 

I think rule may have been re-written, either way we don't appear to have complied with it. Funny I thought it was the EU that make the rules knowing we are the only ones stupid enough to go along with it...

1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

Yes there is! The referendum asked "in or out" the vote was out!........ No conditions were attached, that's the mandate, just get us "out".......claiming there is no mandate for leaving without a deal, is remainer prevarication!

If only the world was as simple as you would appear to want it to be.

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33 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

On the contrary, I'd say that if it weren't  for concerns about a chaotic Brexit plunging Ireland into recession  we'd be out already. So perhaps we'll see one final extension to allow more time for Ireland to prepare and perhaps to get some financial support measures for her in place, and then I think the EU is going to pull the plug. There's no proper plan whatsoever coming out of Britain from either side of the domestic Brexit fence, nor does there look like there's one in the offing. So from an EU perspective it would better to just knock this whole thing on the head and move on. If Britain then comes back wanting access to European markets she can meet the terms on offer or do the other thing. With the UK outside with no European rights looking in, the EU's trade negotiating position is unassailable.

I’ll ask again. Have you given any thought as to what the consequences would be if the referendum result were simply ignored, which is an agenda some are pushing for? 

There you go again, ‘plunging....into a recession’. This was mooted ( along with several others up to and including WWIII if I recall ) if we voted to leave....not if we left, but if we voted to leave. 

We will survive. Life will go on. The works will not end. 

6 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

We didn't leave shortly after the referendum because the government claimed it was better to give it time and leave with a deal....we did not know then that the remainers in government aided and abetted by the EU would scupper any hope of an acceptable "deal"....the next step was for the remainers to take away the UK's main bargaining chip of leaving without a deal, scuppering any chance of leaving without a "deal"

Cant get an acceptable deal, can't leave without a deal.....

it doesn't need a university degree to work out Parliament are trying to prevent any sort of Brexit from the EU, because it is made up overwhelmingly by remainers....who have set themselves against both democracy, and the people! 

This. 

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1 hour ago, henry d said:

If that were true then we should have left shortly after the referendum, we didn't, so a deal is as much part of the process as no deal.

Why do people keep posting stuff like this ?
You cant legally leave the EU without following the A50 process, so you cant leave until the 2 year time limit has expired.

Ergo, if no deal has been arranged and no extension asked for , and granted , you leave with no deal.

Whats difficult about that to understand?

46 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Re-read what you posted, I'll leave the rest for you to work out 😉

No , Im not doing cryptic today, what 'stereotypes ' are you referring to ?

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12 minutes ago, Scully said:

Seriously? You don’t think there would be any consequences? 

Probably not. Project Fear... :) Anyway, I wouldn't worry. Everything that's coming out of Europe suggests that they're sick to the back teeth of us. I don't think we could get back in now even if we wanted.

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3 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Probably not. Project Fear... :) Anyway, I wouldn't worry. Everything that's coming out of Europe suggests that they're sick to the back teeth of us. I don't think we could get back in now even if we wanted.

Besides the fact we havent left !

The  'We arent going to give you an extension ' is just shallow posturing to make us cancel Brexit, if you cant see that, Im pretty surprised at you.

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36 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

What consequences?

I think the consequences will be chronic rather than acute.

I’m quite sure there would be some heightened emotion that might lead to flash points with civil unrest, etc, but not to the scale many suggest.

The bigger issue for me is the longer term impacts of a self-considered disaffected and disenfranchised society and the wholesale loss of trust in government by that community.

Just now we are seeing attitudinal change by society towards politics and politicians, but not yet significant behavioural change.  Driving a wedge further between the public and political class (perceived elites) will drive behavioural change and greater extremism.

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42 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Probably not. Project Fear... :) Anyway, I wouldn't worry. Everything that's coming out of Europe suggests that they're sick to the back teeth of us. I don't think we could get back in now even if we wanted.

I haven’t suggested any consequences if we left, as I have no idea what they might be; but that doesn’t mean I don’t think there will be none, unlike the prophecies of doom and gloom from remainers  if we leave.

As for your last paragraph, we haven’t left yet, so I’m not sure how you reckon we couldn’t get back in. 🤔 Don’t worry, the EU won’t kick us out, we’re one of their biggest cash cows. 

 

Edited by Scully
Being thick!
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3 hours ago, Scully said:

It seems to have become the norm now to for some to shout down or over those whose voices they don’t want to hear. It’s not debate, it’s the politics of bullying. 

My 8 year old had friends round last week and one of them said " those MPs are rude, they don't listen when others are talking and just shout over others!!"

from the mouths of babe's 

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Quote

 

I think the consequences will be chronic rather than acute.

I’m quite sure there would be some heightened emotion that might lead to flash points with civil unrest, etc, but not to the scale many suggest.

The bigger issue for me is the longer term impacts of a self-considered disaffected and disenfranchised society and the wholesale loss of trust in government by that community.

Just now we are seeing attitudinal change by society towards politics and politicians, but not yet significant behavioural change.  Driving a wedge further between the public and political class (perceived elites) will drive behavioural change and greater extremism.

 

A thoughtful and accurate post in my book.

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4 minutes ago, Mice! said:

My 8 year old had friends round last week and one of them said " those MPs are rude, they don't listen when others are talking and just shout over others!!"

from the mouths of babe's 

A prime example was Thornberry - did anybody see her on GMB today - reiterating the claptrap that Labour would negotiate a good deal and would then campaign against it!!

I bet if labour were turkeys they would vote for Christmas :D

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A credible scenario imho is that now that their votes aren't needed to keep the Tories in power Boris jettisons the  DUP and revisits a wet border in the Irish Sea leaving NI with a foot in both camps. This of course was the solution initially mooted by the EU and it has merit.

1) It would be an economic boon for NI

2) It does away with the hated backstop (originally a  British suggestion to appease the DUP btw)

The problem at the moment is that something has to move somewhere and a move that would solve the Irish border question would take the pressure off. The Withdrawal Agreement, which is just a framework really for how to proceed, could then be signed, Britain could leave and everything could start moving forward.

In practical terms leaving without a deal solves nothing, because the very next day we're going to have to be back trying to sort out what kind of relationship we want with the EU only this time without a framework to base talks on and a ticking economic pistol to our collective heads.Not to mention a lot of squandered goodwill on both sides.

But the biggest issue is that even now three years after the vote there has never been a proper discussion much less consensus about what our future relationship with the EU should look like. Because simple geography dictates that we're going to have to have one, and a close one at that.

And that's my main beef with politics and media on both sides. Everyone is obsessed with day to day political tactics and nobody is exploring or debating any kind of wider strategic goals at all. It's all cart and no horse.

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7 minutes ago, discobob said:

A prime example was Thornberry - did anybody see her on GMB today - reiterating the claptrap that Labour would negotiate a good deal and would then campaign against it!!

I bet if labour were turkeys they would vote for Christmas

Thornberry is a particularly nasty example of a champagne 'do as I say, not as I do' socialist, rude , arrogant and totally self absorbed.

And yet , there are people on here that would see her, and other nightmare politicians from her side , govern this country !

Such poor judgment leads me to doubt their motives, and sanity.

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