BREXIT

[Raja Clavata]

9 hours ago, Rewulf said:

That starts with not repeating the mistakes of the past.

Or by reciting the notion that in times of change the learners inherit the earth whereas the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with an earth that no longer exists.

6 hours ago, discobob said:

my view on this

when you are right you are right (leave) - you only have that to stand by - that was the outcome of the referendum and that is fact

when you are wrong (leavers) - you are wrong on so many levels that you can twist and turn countless ways to make your own version of the truth. You can vehemently defend that version of the truth that you are currently supporting - and as the leave vote has only that one thing to stand by - the  remainers can choose multiple avenues of attack utilizing one of the many "fake" truths that they have contrived.

The trouble is that "normal" people see through this (a few people that I know that voted remain are now supporting leave because of everything that has happened), but normal people are now getting few and far between in this snowflake society that we have become.

Please don't think that I am attacking people here with this - everybody is allowed their own opinions on this issue - both sides have valid points etc - I am talking about our elected parliament, liberal elite and the media at large (with the odd exception)

So to be clear it’s possible to have valid points but overall be wrong?

[Cosmicblue]

It's just a horrendous mess - I can't imagine that I'm the only one that is totally 100% bored of the whole thing - and the ineffective people's representatives who once elected seem to be hell bent on achieving their own objectives rather than those of the very people that got them there in the first place.  

Our political system seems to have broken itself - now in conflict with the judiciary, talk of the PM misleading the Queen - that's a one way visit to the Tower of London.  Taxi!!

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

Or by reciting the notion that in times of change the learners inherit the earth whereas the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with an earth that no longer exists.

 

How do the learners learn? 

Do they pay no attention to the learned? 

Adaptation to change always benefits from historical education. 

What do we learn at school, University? 

Empirical, factual data, the method and theory of how the data was collected. 

Without learning from the past, we do without doubt, risk wasting time and resources, making the same mistakes, over and over again. 

The learners do indeed inherit the earth, but only those who pay attention to the learned. 

[discobob]

1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

So to be clear it’s possible to have valid points but overall be wrong?

Your obviously not married then 😂

Leave is right - by the majority vote.  I was just putting a binary view on the mess that it is. 

My reference to valid points is to what is being posted in this thread  - predominantly. 

[Newbie to this]

9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

So to be clear it’s possible to have valid points but overall be wrong?

Nice fishing expedition!

[oldypigeonpopper]

13 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, i hear the Labour party are going all out to remain, what about all those trade union supporters who voted for brexit feel about that, i would cancel my union membership payment or the % that goes to the Labour party funds, any thoughts PW members 

hello, i meant to say Tom Watson a hard left or right union leader

12 hours ago, henry d said:

We did it over a decade ago (FBU), you can opt out of the labour party percentage, easy peasy.

hello, yes henry i know as i was in 2 trade unions, engineers and boilermakers, 

[Raja Clavata]

12 hours ago, Rewulf said:

How do the learners learn? 

Do they pay no attention to the learned? 

Adaptation to change always benefits from historical education. 

What do we learn at school, University? 

Empirical, factual data, the method and theory of how the data was collected. 

Without learning from the past, we do without doubt, risk wasting time and resources, making the same mistakes, over and over again. 

The learners do indeed inherit the earth, but only those who pay attention to the learned. 

I think you (deliberately) missed the point 😉

11 hours ago, discobob said:

Your obviously not married then 😂

Leave is right - by the majority vote.  I was just putting a binary view on the mess that it is. 

My reference to valid points is to what is being posted in this thread  - predominantly. 

Fair enough. 

4 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Nice fishing expedition!

Even on fishing expeditions it's best not to test the depth of the water with both feet 😛 

[Rewulf]

56 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I think you (deliberately) missed the point 😉

I think you need to make your point a little better, the cryptic style you use is open to interpretation 

 

Darren Grimes‏Verified account @darrengrimes_

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Remain MPs are calling for their political opponents to be imprisoned.

Remain MPs are calling for the mobile phones of their political opponents to be seized.

Remain MPs are blocking both Brexit and a General Election.

Remind me again how it’s Brexiteers that are ‘fascists’?

11:56 PM - 11 Sep 2019

 

Darren was unsuccessfully prosecuted by the 'completely unbiased' electoral commission, for an alleged overspend during the referendum.
The court case cost the tax payer over half a million quid, including a staggering bill of £36,000 for 'printing costs'

[B725]

Do did Boris lie to the queen to suspend parliament, I don't for one minute think he did. 

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, B725 said:

Do did Boris lie to the queen to suspend parliament, I don't for one minute think he did. 

The important question there, is how on earth would they prove it either way?

Just another slur , trying to divert attention away from the fact that the remain MPs are trying to overturn the referendum result.

That idiot Watson has declared the referendum 'invalid' so we need another one !? Before a GE no less 😂
Is that so when they get a leave result AGAIN , they can say 'Well we need a GE now  , to make sure' ?

Its pathetic.

[B725]

On the news last night they think they have found another planet that may be similar to earth let the EU and remainers go there and live in harmony with each other. 

[Rewulf]

 

[panoma1]

5 hours ago, Rewulf said:

I think you need to make your point a little better, the cryptic style you use is open to interpretation 

 

Darren Grimes‏Verified account @darrengrimes_

FollowFollow @darrengrimes_

More

Remain MPs are calling for their political opponents to be imprisoned.

Remain MPs are calling for the mobile phones of their political opponents to be seized.

Remain MPs are blocking both Brexit and a General Election.

Remind me again how it’s Brexiteers that are ‘fascists’?

11:56 PM - 11 Sep 2019

 

Darren was unsuccessfully prosecuted by the 'completely unbiased' electoral commission, for an alleged overspend during the referendum.
The court case cost the tax payer over half a million quid, including a staggering bill of £36,000 for 'printing costs'

Wouldn’t argue with this assessment of the treachery currently being perpetrated by the remainer parliamentary traitors! 

[martyn2233]

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-secretary-signs-commencement-order-to-trigger-end-of-eu-law-on-31-october/

 

 

Hope this is right 

[discobob]

So Boris is doing a "Kansas City Shuffle" then (Bruce Willis in Lucky Number Slevin)

"A Kansas City Shuffle is when everybody looks right, you go left."

[Retsdon]

On 12/09/2019 at 01:57, Rewulf said:

What do we learn at school, University? 

In school, we learn whatever it is that the Powers That Be want us to learn. But in a proper university  - and not just a glorified vocational college that calls itself a university - the first thing we learn is how to source and assess original material. It's like night and day.

But the arguments are irrelevant now because from what I can make out it's all over bar the shouting. They might be spinning this statement from Amélie de Montchalin as a evidence of a potential new Brexit extension, but what she actually says is that France will need a change of government or an upcoming election to even consider OKing an extension request. Outside of this clip, - but in the same interview -  she also said that the EU only deals with governments and not with domestic parliaments, so any request for such an extension must come from the British government itself. And unless Boris does a complete 180 degree U turn, that doesn't look remotely likely. So basically it's game over.

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Retsdon

[Newbie to this]

12 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

In school, we learn whatever it is that the Powers That Be want us to learn. Bu in a proper university  - and not just a glorified vocational college that calls itself a university - the first thing we learn is how to source and assess original material. It's like night and day.

I think that thin air is affecting you up there on that extra high horse

[henry d]

24 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

In school, we learn whatever it is that the Powers That Be want us to learn. Bu in a proper university  - and not just a glorified vocational college that calls itself a university - the first thing we learn is how to source and assess original material. It's like night and day.

Strange how many people don`t know this fact, it was a shock for me I can tell you, but liberating

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

I think that thin air is affecting you up there on that extra high horse

If you look at the curriculum of any school system in the world it will reflect the social mores and outlook of the society from which it originates. So, for example,  the history that's taught in Russia or America isn't the same as is taught in Britain or France or China. Each country will teach what it wants its children to learn and omit what it doesn't want them to learn. And everything that's taught will be from a particular perspective too. That's how it happens everywhere because at school level a very large part of what we are taught is purposely a form of social conditioning - one that is undertaken to maintain or reinforce social cohesion. And there's nothing wrong with that.

The purpose of a university is different though. Extending the boundaries of knowledge or thinking is the goal, and so the student is trained and encouraged to question everything. And so yes, there's a difference between a true university (or university course) and a university that's essentially a high level vocational college where the goal is to equip students for the workplace. Because it has a different purpose, the second will be more like an extension of school. It's the purpose of the institution (or course) that's the difference.

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Retsdon

[Newbie to this]

11 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Not a high horse at all. If you look at the curriculum of any school system in the world it will reflect the social mores and outlook of the society in which it originates. So, for example,  the history that's taught in Russia or America isn't the same as is taught in Britain or France or China. Each country will teach what it wants its children to learn and omit what it doesn't want them to learn. That's how it works everywhere because at school level a large part of what we are taught is, to a large extent, a form of social conditioning. 

But at university though that's not the case. You're taught and trained how to question everything. And yes, there's a difference between a true university (or university course) and a university that's essentially a high level vocational college. Because it has a different purpose, the second is an extension of school. That's just how it is.

So in school you are taught what they want and in a 'REAL' university they teach you to think for yourself.

That's the bit that I find condescending, it reads to me that, you can only think for yourself if you have been to a 'REAL' university, thus implying that everyone else is just an drone, and those who have been to a 'REAL' university are somehow superior. Hence my 'high horse' comment.

If I have miss interpreted your comment then I apologise.

[Retsdon]

11 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

If I have miss interpreted your comment then I apologise.

No need to apologise. I didn't make myself clear and I've edited my post accordingly.

[discobob]

33 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

If you look at the curriculum of any school system in the world it will reflect the social mores and outlook of the society from which it originates. So, for example,  the history that's taught in Russia or America isn't the same as is taught in Britain or France or China. Each country will teach what it wants its children to learn and omit what it doesn't want them to learn. And everything that's taught will be from a particular perspective too. That's how it happens everywhere because at school level a very large part of what we are taught is purposely a form of social conditioning - one that is undertaken to maintain or reinforce social cohesion. And there's nothing wrong with that.

The purpose of a university is different though. Extending the boundaries of knowledge or thinking is the goal, and so the student is trained and encouraged to question everything. And so yes, there's a difference between a true university (or university course) and a university that's essentially a high level vocational college. Because it has a different purpose, the second will be an extension of school.

That's now it works - nothing to do with high horses at all.

having kids going though school now, I totally agree with you. I know that this is digressing from the topic at hand but it boils my blood that my kids are receiving 20% less education than their English/Scottish/Irish counterparts. This is because the Welsh Government makes all students have 2 hours of Welsh and 2 hours of Welsh Baccalaureate a week out of the (minimal) school time which is about 1 hour less a day than when I went to School and no- we did have pen and paper then

This is pushing the Welsh agenda

I have no issue with my kids learning Welsh (even though they attend an English Speaking school - the Welsh one is next door), however they should extend the school hours to cover for it rather than bleating on about how Wales is behind England in Education standards.

Anyway - back onto topic

I thought that Question Time last night was very "Remain" biased - by this I mean the questions from the audience. It was a lot more civil than last week though!!

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, discobob said:

I thought that Question Time last night was very "Remain" biased - by this I mean the questions from the audience. It was a lot more civil than last week though!!

What do you expect - they carefully choose both questions and panelists to suit their (BBC) agenda.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

4 minutes ago, discobob said:

having kids going though school now, I totally agree with you. I know that this is digressing from the topic at hand but it boils my blood that my kids are receiving 20% less education than their English/Scottish/Irish counterparts. This is because the Welsh Government makes all students have 2 hours of Welsh and 2 hours of Welsh Baccalaureate a week out of the (minimal) school time which is about 1 hour less a day than when I went to School and no- we did have pen and paper then

This is pushing the Welsh agenda

I have no issue with my kids learning Welsh (even though they attend an English Speaking school - the Welsh one is next door), however they should extend the school hours to cover for it rather than bleating on about how Wales is behind England in Education standards.

Anyway - back onto topic

I thought that Question Time last night was very "Remain" biased - by this I mean the questions from the audience. It was a lot more civil than last week though!!

 

Just now, Yellow Bear said:

What do you expect - they carefully choose both questions and panelists to suit their (BBC) agenda.

Surely not!

 

I can't believe you might think the BBC is capable of such subterfuge!

[Dave-G]

Hmm... Look at any 'billboard' outside a UK university you'll see it carries words to the effect that its funded by the EU, and we know the EU likes to project its own agenda.

 

In addition I think that many uni students are pretty miffed about the massive debt they have to eventually repay for their education when they find suitably profitable work - that us older peeps never had to endure.

 

All in all I suspect uni students are a fairly resentful bunch.