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JohnfromUK
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4 minutes ago, timps said:

With that stance then you have a prime minister that actively lied to the Queen proven in a court of law.  
 

 

No such evidence  exists, maybe they would like to put HM on the stand and ask her ?

 

7 minutes ago, oowee said:

 The only tools he has are bluff and bluster and sooner or later the Tory party members who put him in place will see him for what he is.  If he lasts that long.

Hes had that for years , they still voted for him, and quite frankly, I dont care.

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4 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

No such evidence  exists, maybe they would like to put HM on the stand and ask her ?

 

Hes had that for years , they still voted for him, and quite frankly, I dont care.

Shortest PM in history lasted 119 days. That's about the middle of Nov. Do you think Boris will stay after he has asked for an extension? 

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4 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

This prorogation was unusual, we were told that the queen does not normally get involved and normally takes the advice of her PM. I think you are using poetic licence here...

Im not the one saying Boris lied to the queen, if she feels like she was lied to , then Boris is in a world of trouble.
I dont think he is .

 

5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Too many what it's and conjecture.

A bit like the court case.

 

6 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It's frankly incredible to suggest that all 11 justices passed the same judgement based on a hunch, in fact it's bordering on mentalist.

I never said hunch , I said opinion, which I might add , is different to other courts who saw the same case, how mentals that 🤣

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The Supreme Court have not said Boris lied to the Queen, but said he had acted illegally.  However, I would take a lot of convincing that his motives were genuine. I believe he did it to curtail discussion, albeit a pointless exercise. The Remain bunch want a few extra days, when three years has proven insufficient. 

They are hanging their hat on Boris not getting a deal and the EU granting an extension - neither of which is certain.

Whatever his faults - and he has many - Boris has shown more leadership than any Prime Minister since Maggie Thatcher.

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5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It's frankly incredible to suggest that all 11 justices passed the same judgement based on a hunch, in fact it's bordering on mentalist.

So what was the evidence that it was unlawful???

The way it's been put in the media, is it's only unlawful if it was done for purposes other than what he has stated,  in other words he lied. So where is the proof of his intention? The proof he lied?

If there is no proof then they have judged on their own personal feelings on his intention. I can't see how they can have proof of him lying!

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2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Im not the one saying Boris lied to the queen, if she feels like she was lied to , then Boris is in a world of trouble.
I dont think he is .

Possibly the only way we might know how she feels is if he goes and asks her for a second go at prorogation but as such matters are, I suspect a formality, i.e. sounded out beforehand I doubt that will happen nor in that scenario that we'd even know...

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2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I don't think that can happen without the junta that you were in favour of coming to being, can it?

We live in strange times, how far do you think the remainers are prepared to go ?
Miller said she would 'bury' the government in litigation to stop Brexit !

At least shes honest (now) about her intentions, rather than say its 'in the nations interest' 

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Shortest PM in history lasted 119 days. That's about the middle of Nov. Do you think Boris will stay after he has asked for an extension

He will resign first, then you can have Corbyn , watch the £ tumble to nothing as we become more 3rd world than ever , such fun !

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19 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Welsh1 (Rob) I respect your opinion and will happily stick to mine.

Can you quantify what you mean with a time scale please.

Because labour are terrified that boris or for that matter a turnip on a stick will beat them because of their stance on brexit, they will wait until after the 31st when we are again stuck for another few months, but they will have to call for a vote of no confidence, as they cannot go on with a government with no power.

Labour have been fatally wounded, they should call for a vote of no confidence straight away, but they know theey will lose an election, but by not doing so makes them appear even more weak and ineffective , when they do call for a vote of NC the electorate will remember how labour dealt with it.

The frustration of the public can only build and build, the politicians are being rather silly.

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1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

We live in strange times, how far do you think the remainers are prepared to go ?
Miller said she would 'bury' the government in litigation to stop Brexit !

At least shes honest (now) about her intentions, rather than say its 'in the nations interest' 

He will resign first, then you can have Corbyn , watch the £ tumble to nothing as we become more 3rd world than ever , such fun !

Difficult to say, it has got quite personal and "principle" based now hasn't it!?

Are you suggesting Corbyn would in fact go through with no deal then?

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2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Possibly the only way we might know how she feels is if he goes and asks her for a second go at prorogation  And takes us over to November with no deal but as such matters are, I suspect a formality, i.e. sounded out beforehand I doubt that will happen nor in that scenario that we'd even know...

If it were that simple, I would laugh my socks off!

 

3 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

The frustration of the public can only build and build, the politicians are being rather silly.

And there you have it .

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9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

No such evidence  exists, maybe they would like to put HM on the stand and ask her ?

Yes it does, what was said and how it was done is not in any dispute by either side,  there are procedural records. The reasons given were not Brexit related however the court deemed they had an impact.

So this was Borris either lying to the Queen for his own political gain  or he just was incompetent and didn't mean it to happen.

Therefore Brexit related means lying and non Brexit related means not thinking of the ramifications, by your stance of it being Brexit related you believed he lied. 

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Just now, Raja Clavata said:

Are you suggesting Corbyn would in fact go through with no deal then?

Of course not , as much as hed like to , his support in the party is tenuous.
If it werent at such a critical time, where a leadership swap would be so damaging , he would be out on his ear.

No , hes now nailed his colours to the mast , a full on socialist state will be in the manifesto come the impending election, it will scare the center left and moderates to death.
If Brexit was going to be the hill labour died on, this dis unity,  and bonkers proposals put forward , will be the final stand on the blood soaked grass.

3 minutes ago, timps said:

Yes it does, what was said and how it was done is not in any dispute by either side,  there are procedural records. The reasons given were not Brexit related however the court deemed they had an impact.

So this was Borris either lying to the Queen for his own political gain  or he just was incompetent and didn't mean it to happen.

Therefore Brexit related means lying and non Brexit related means not thinking of the ramifications, by your stance of it being Brexit related you believed he lied. 

So we know what he said to HM , and the reasons for prorogation put to her.?

I certainly dont know what was said, so how can I say that I believe they were or were not Brexit related ??
 

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10 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So we know what he said to HM , and the reasons for prorogation put to her.?

I certainly dont know what was said, so how can I say that I believe they were or were not Brexit related ??
 

you can read the full judgement or listen to countless Boris interviews where he said it wasn't about Brexit.

Like I said the decision of the court was not about Brexit, he took a gamble on procedure they have not said he lied but left the two choices up to parliament to decided. 

this is not a remainer rant just a reckless prime minister rant, it was a gamble that lost my respect not that any of them have my respect now.

 

Edited by timps
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46 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

They have painted themselves into a corner, if they don't call a no confidence vote they make themselves look totally incompetent and will be saying they still support the government

I’m not so sure Rob.  It is entirely possible that the “rebel alliance” could try to enact primary legislation under standing order 24, which Bercow has said he will allow, to legislate for let’s say a second referendum.

The rebel alliance could keep the Conservative government in situ, with no majority and no ability to conduct business whilst they effectively run a government of national unity, without it actually being so.

If Bercow continues to permit the use of standing orders and humble addresses they could call the shots and mandate the executive to do what they wish.

They have been openly prepared to act in the face of the electorate to stymy Brexit already, despite fallacious argument to the contrary, so why not continue in that theme to stymy a GE?

Of course Boris could prorogue again for 4-6 days purely for the Queen’s speech, which couldn’t be challenged, that would then get rid of Bercow earlier than the 31st and mix things up a wee bit more.

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9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

😂😂😂. Priceless! Dear, dear my ribs are sore!  Anyway, thanks very much for that one Gordon. It's been a pretty miserable day here, but that's just brightened it,

No beheadings today then? ;-)

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11 minutes ago, grrclark said:

I’m not so sure Rob.  It is entirely possible that the “rebel alliance” could try to enact primary legislation under standing order 24, which Bercow has said he will allow, to legislate for let’s say a second referendum.

The rebel alliance could keep the Conservative government in situ, with no majority and no ability to conduct business whilst they effectively run a government of national unity, without it actually being so.

If Bercow continues to permit the use of standing orders and humble addresses they could call the shots and mandate the executive to do what they wish.

They have been openly prepared to act in the face of the electorate to stymy Brexit already, despite fallacious argument to the contrary, so why not continue in that theme to stymy a GE?

Of course Boris could prorogue again for 4-6 days purely for the Queen’s speech, which couldn’t be challenged, that would then get rid of Bercow earlier than the 31st and mix things up a wee bit more.

They probably could do as you say, but they are all now looking forward, and at somepoint there will be an election, and the people will remember what was done, Labour are looking down the barrel and their future as the main opposition is tetering on the edge, what they do in the next few week will decide their fate

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12 minutes ago, grrclark said:

The rebel alliance could keep the Conservative government in situ, with no majority and no ability to conduct business whilst they effectively run a government of national unity, without it actually being so.

If Bercow continues to permit the use of standing orders and humble addresses they could call the shots and mandate the executive to do what they wish.

And this is the result of the fixed term parliament act - (which was rushed in without being properly thought through to stop Clegg throwing his toys out of the cot) - , combined with a crooked biased speaker.

As far as I can see, with the connivance of the speaker, any 'group' that can get a majority can run the country.

2 minutes ago, welsh1 said:

Labour are looking down the barrel and their future as the main opposition is tetering on the edge, what they do in the next few week will decide their fate

Many Labour MPs are incapable of looking beyond the next soundbite.  Look who they elected as leader - look how they have run their recent conference, - look how they are now prettyb much completely controlled by the Unions and Momentum.  MPs now have very little say in Labour policy forming or decision making.

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9 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Such as ... ?

Exposure of the factions trying to pervert the referendum result ?

Manoeuvreing the opposition into a position they dont want to be in (GE)

Think of it like a game of chess, that juicy piece you have to sacrifice for the end game result .

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