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JohnfromUK
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13 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I dunno how I got a double video up there - sorry.

Tried to add text to it as well but that dint work either so - does anyone know if the above is true?

And how would the EU take control of our armed services? Think the guy has been on the wacky baccy.

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11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Maybe he will , maybe he wont.

I see you’ve mastered tautologies🤣

But it wont be because someone takes a sexual impropriety accusation seriously .

Agreed

And it wont be because what hes trying to achieve is unpopular with the electorate.

Don’t agree, what supports your view?

It certainly wont win labour an election, or stop them losing a whole raft of seats, their own policies will do that on there own.

100%

No , if he goes , its because he is seen as a major threat to the remain MPs and there aims.

I understand your perspective on this but think it’s a bit more complicated than that 

WHEN this matter is put before the people, thats when the reckoning comes, if Boris has to sacrifice himself , he will, but he will make sure it makes Brexit happen as a consequence.
Thats whats called acting with conscience and integrity, NOT what you think is best for YOURSELF.

Do me a favour

Ill say it again, remain do not, did not , and will not ever, have the numbers to get their way.
They are delaying the inevitable, and it will cost them all the more the longer it takes, this particularly relates to labour and SNP MPs.

Maybe, maybe not

It wasnt so long ago we were talking about the destruction of the tory party, Boris put them back together, thats worth something.

For real!? What about the expulsions?

Now were talking about the destruction of the labour party, do you think the commissar can do the same :whistling:

Don’t know don’t care tbh

The evidence for this parallel universe theory is gaining traction 🙄

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1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

 

 

 

Doing that would actually harm the EU because we are a key broker for US and other 5 Eyes intelligence and security information to them through bilateral relationships.  It would be impossible to simply cede control of our security services in the way described

Also, the military figures who supposedly received the letters both retired over 10 years ago, in fact the Admiral in question left in 1996.  Fake news.

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Thanks for that. 

 

I just found there is talk of him being in breach of official secrets so somethings bothering a few people about it.

 

I've copied and pasted the below from here: https://www.europereloaded.com/hero-of-brexit-lord-james-of-blackheath-threatened-over-eu-defence-union/

The Threats Ramp Up

The abusive responses Lord James received from Lord Blunkett and Lord Robertson in the House of Lords were mild compared to more recent communications.

Since then, other Lordly colleagues have begun demanding he resign immediately and have advised him he can expect a visit from the police for breach of the Official Secrets Act.

Lord James has had the bravery to lift the lid on a policy no-one else in the political establishment wants to discuss. He needs widespread public support.

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30 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

And it wont be because what hes trying to achieve is unpopular with the electorate.

Don’t agree, what supports your view?

Common sense, if remain was a favoured view , labour would be in power, and we would have revoked A50 months ago.
In the absence of sensible polling data, we must look at the only reliable figures, BP MEPs cleaning up, Boris's stance is NOT receiving flak or causing public uproar, rather the opposite in fact.
A fully loaded and supported BP , and a united tory party to name a few indicators.

 

35 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No , if he goes , its because he is seen as a major threat to the remain MPs and there aims.

I understand your perspective on this but think it’s a bit more complicated than that 

Its actually not, if hes such a blundering buffoon, why not keep him where he can do the most damage, at the head of the enemy ?

 

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

WHEN this matter is put before the people, thats when the reckoning comes, if Boris has to sacrifice himself , he will, but he will make sure it makes Brexit happen as a consequence.
Thats whats called acting with conscience and integrity, NOT what you think is best for YOURSELF.

Do me a favour

You have a pathological hatred of the man, its clouding your judgment.
I dont care much for him myself, but I can see the qualities he has, good , and bad.

 

39 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Ill say it again, remain do not, did not , and will not ever, have the numbers to get their way.
They are delaying the inevitable, and it will cost them all the more the longer it takes, this particularly relates to labour and SNP MPs.

Maybe, maybe not

You lost the first referendum by 4 points, with all the back up of the government and the press/media.
If there was a swing back to remain, we would have a referendum ..again.
They dont like the numbers , so simply aint going to do it ! Simple.

 

41 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

It wasnt so long ago we were talking about the destruction of the tory party, Boris put them back together, thats worth something.

For real!? What about the expulsions?

For real ?
Chucking out the rubbish !
What good are party members who plot against you, plot against their constituents ?

 

43 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

The evidence for this parallel universe theory is gaining traction 🙄

The only parallel universe, is the one that certain MP s are living in , where they think they can ignore the majority votes of their constituents , change parties , policies , and do anything else that takes their fancy, and STILL get elected !

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So many people getting excited about our useless politicians  - losing sight of the fact that politicians do something that rarely results in anything useful...politics.   The proper people who strive to get real work done and attempt to translate all the hot air into a practical action reside in Whitehall as civil servants.

So let's be realistic - 40 years in the making, how long to extract the UK from the EU?  It wasn't three years - who fancies a sensible guess at the amount of time it will take?  5/10/15 years?

I reckon at least 10... 

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2 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

So many people getting excited about our useless politicians  - losing sight of the fact that politicians do something that rarely results in anything useful...politics.   The proper people who strive to get real work done and attempt to translate all the hot air into a practical action reside in Whitehall as civil servants.

So let's be realistic - 40 years in the making, how long to extract the UK from the EU?  It wasn't three years - who fancies a sensible guess at the amount of time it will take?  5/10/15 years?

I reckon at least 10... 

And there you have part of the problem - they (the seniors) do not want out but are there to do the will of the government so they delay and cloud the issue.   They seem , like some of the MPs, to have forgotten that they are in fact SERVANTS of the people through parliament.

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10 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

So many people getting excited about our useless politicians  - losing sight of the fact that politicians do something that rarely results in anything useful...politics.   The proper people who strive to get real work done and attempt to translate all the hot air into a practical action reside in Whitehall as civil servants.

So let's be realistic - 40 years in the making, how long to extract the UK from the EU?  It wasn't three years - who fancies a sensible guess at the amount of time it will take?  5/10/15 years?

I reckon at least 10... 

Best stop in then ?

What other things do you not fancy trying , cos they might be too 'difficult' ?

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7 minutes ago, Cosmicblue said:

So many people getting excited about our useless politicians  - losing sight of the fact that politicians do something that rarely results in anything useful...politics.   The proper people who strive to get real work done and attempt to translate all the hot air into a practical action reside in Whitehall as civil servants.

So let's be realistic - 40 years in the making, how long to extract the UK from the EU?  It wasn't three years - who fancies a sensible guess at the amount of time it will take?  5/10/15 years?

I reckon at least 10... 

They deserve a medal completely misunderstood by the public and politicians.

I reckon at least 40 years. It's not one way. as soon as we are out we will begin the process of unwinding everything and at the same time make the move to realign.

When I went to work for Birmingham Council I met a chap that was employed by West Midlands County Council. His role to move land from the Local Councils to the County. At the end of ten years when all the land was moved over the County was abolished. He then spent the last 10 years of work moving the land back again. 

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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

Common sense, if remain was a favoured view , labour would be in power, and we would have revoked A50 months ago.
In the absence of sensible polling data, we must look at the only reliable figures, BP MEPs cleaning up, Boris's stance is NOT receiving flak or causing public uproar, rather the opposite in fact.
A fully loaded and supported BP , and a united tory party to name a few indicators.

Common sense like the video posted here earlier and remarks about what a smart chap BoJo is, ok.

Its actually not, if hes such a blundering buffoon, why not keep him where he can do the most damage, at the head of the enemy ?

You know full well why not 

You have a pathological hatred of the man, its clouding your judgment.
I dont care much for him myself, but I can see the qualities he has, good , and bad.

Not so, Dominic Cummings yes, but not Boris

You lost the first referendum by 4 points, with all the back up of the government and the press/media.
If there was a swing back to remain, we would have a referendum ..again.
They dont like the numbers , so simply aint going to do it ! Simple.

But I am advocating a GE and / or referendum because we need this mess sorted 

For real ?
Chucking out the rubbish !
What good are party members who plot against you, plot against their constituents ?

I find that comment quite disingenuous to what I consider to be some exceptional public servants who served this country with aplomb until the whole Brexit debacle unravelled. Rubbishing a MP based on their leaning on Brexit is just a tad blinkered, no?

The only parallel universe, is the one that certain MP s are living in , where they think they can ignore the majority votes of their constituents , change parties , policies , and do anything else that takes their fancy, and STILL get elected !

Many have been expelled from their party based on their belief. Come on you started off quoting common sense. Can you not see many prioritise stopping no deal Brexit over getting re-elected. Seriously..,

 

1 hour ago, Cosmicblue said:

So many people getting excited about our useless politicians  - losing sight of the fact that politicians do something that rarely results in anything useful...politics.   The proper people who strive to get real work done and attempt to translate all the hot air into a practical action reside in Whitehall as civil servants.

So let's be realistic - 40 years in the making, how long to extract the UK from the EU?  It wasn't three years - who fancies a sensible guess at the amount of time it will take?  5/10/15 years?

I reckon at least 10... 

A once in a generation vote that’ll probably take a generation to sort out

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2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Common sense like the video posted here earlier and remarks about what a smart chap BoJo is, ok

What has the video got to do with what I'm talking about, I've not even watched it? 

Who said BJs a smart chap too? But I will say one thing, he's the PM, so he can't be that thick? 

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

I find that comment quite disingenuous to what I consider to be some exceptional public servants who served this country with aplomb until the whole Brexit debacle unravelled. Rubbishing a MP based on their leaning on Brexit is just a tad blinkered, no?

How do you know they are exceptional? 

Do you know them personally, enough to comment? 

BTW I'm certainly not rubbishing ANYONE on their brexit STANCE, but I will on their brexit ACTIONS, they were told/whipped to vote with their party, or they would be expelled, they chose their errr, conscience, and were duly booted. 

2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

once in a generation vote that’ll probably take a generation to sort out

Lmao, if we keep at it, it'll be a generation before it gets enacted! 

I wonder if we can use this delaying tactic for other votes. 

It only took 40 years to give the public a say on the matter.. Despite the fact it is nothing like what we joined. 

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4 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Best stop in then ?

What other things do you not fancy trying , cos they might be too 'difficult' ?

Stop - no, we are in a democracy - there was a majority that voted and now away from the bluster in Westminster the job has has to be done and done properly.  

I have a personal view that the politicians that have 'U turned' have had the practical realities of Brexit explained to them - not that it's impossible to do but rather it is a shed-load of work that will likely span multiple government terms and that of course isn't very compatible to a gravy-train existence of being in politics.

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I remember joining the eu in 71 for trade red tape issues only  ,,,,   not being governed by a non elected brussels aristoceristy  (may not be the right description) I believe every country should be in charge of its own destiny,   as every individual is in charge of his  , if you don't like your job,  move on,   find another job  and enjoy going to work,  or whinge / whinge  or even whinge some more and do nothing and blame everyone else,   I always look forward you cant change history but you make some  

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6 hours ago, Saltings said:

... I believe every country should be in charge of its own destiny,   as every individual is in charge of his...

The first half is correct but unfortunately the second half of the statement is totally incorrect, from the micro to the macro things impinge on every ones life meaning we are not really in charge of most areas of life. The same goes for countries.

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25 minutes ago, henry d said:

The first half is correct but unfortunately the second half of the statement is totally incorrect, from the micro to the macro things impinge on every ones life meaning we are not really in charge of most areas of life. The same goes for countries.

I think its fairly clear what Saltings meant. No one is FULLY in control of their destiny, but there are choices you can make in life. 

You align yourself to a group, an ideology, or a fixed path, and those choices become more limited, your life is then on rails, taking you places you may or may not want to go. 

In other news. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49877512

Corbyn says they will not have a no confidence vote this week, because they might not win it! 

You literally couldn't make it up. 

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