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JohnfromUK
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10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I think any deal Boris comes up with will disappoint everyone.....the best way for the UK to thrive after leaving the EU is with a clean “no deal” break! Free ourselves and owe em/give em nowt!

I second that, it's quite clear now that the EU are not going to offer any form of acceptable deal anymore. 

Let's leave, keep our ransom money and wait for the EU countries to pressure their dictators for a deal.

And in the mean time got on with trading with the rest of the World.

Personally I'd now like to see our trade with the EU kept to an absolute minimum.

Edited by Newbie to this
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No I can't explain as I don't know what standards will be applied here or in Europe. What I do know is these things are currently fairly regularised within the EU. I could hazard a guess that Issues might include;

Pensions (State and Govt) can i draw it abroad will it be index linked across the EU? What will be the rules for living abroad?

Driving Licences. What classes will be recognised where, if I move abroad, will i need separate insurance, driving licence, how long can I use my UK licence? Will i need to get an ICC for my boat or will they recognise my UK ticket? 

Vehicle standards how long can I drive my UK motorhome, car, motrbike, hover board, moped?

The red tape is one part of it the other is cost. Whilst I appreciate for some these things are not so regular for many thousands of others this is just normal stuff. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, panoma1 said:

I think any deal Boris comes up with will disappoint everyone.....the best way for the UK to thrive after leaving the EU is with a clean “no deal” break! Free ourselves and owe em/give em nowt!

I think it will disappoint ........ but I don't think he can get "no deal" over the line in the Commons.  Although it is the 'default' position, he has been completely cornered in that he will have to ask for this delay under the Benn Act.  This has happened because;

  • Parliament is full of people who are not interested in seeing the referendum result carried out - particularly in the form of a no deal
  • He has no majority - that having been squandered by Teresa May in her botched election
  • The Speaker (who is supposed to be unbiased) will connive with anyone to prevent Brexit
  • He cannot seek a General Election (which would very probably give him a majority) because the fixed Parliament legislation brought in to pacify the childish little rat, Clegg has left the timing of a General Election pretty much up to Jeremy Corbyn
  • Jeremy Corbyn says he wants an election - but won't let it happen (because he knows he will lose out)
  • Jeremy Corbyn wanted to leave - but won't because he can't make up his mind - and so his own party won't follow him
  • SNP and LibDem want to Remain and have no intention of following any democratic result anyway

I think that any 'deal' Johnson can get over the line will be the ONLY way leave can happen.

Remember that the 'deal' is only for the 'transition period' up to December 2020, when 'new' trade deals should come into force (the ones the EU has flatly refused to talk about) and is now for no more than 14 months. 

If getting this deal was difficult - wait until we try and negotiate the real trade deals (for the long term post 2020) - that will be when it gets really hard.

 

Edited by JohnfromUK
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7 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Perhaps you can do your own research. Don't tell me - you have done and can't find any which suit your purpose.

All a bit predictable.

Gordon old chap. It's you suggesting that the evidence is out there for some positive scenario. Retsdon has questioned your statement that he has not seen such evidence. I too would be interested in any evidence based proposition of a positive outcome. Don't tell me you don't have any otherwise I would have to dismiss your comment?

All very predictable. 

7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I think it will disappoint ........ but I don't think he can get "no deal" over the line in the Commons.  Although it is the 'default' position, he has been completely cornered in that he will have to ask for this delay under the Benn Act.  This has happened because;

  • Parliament is full of people who are not interested in seeing the referendum result carried out - particularly in the form of a no deal
  • He has no majority - that having been squandered by Teresa May in her botched election
  • The Speaker (who is supposed to be unbiased) will connive with anyone to prevent Brexit
  • He cannot seek a General Election (which would very probably give him a majority) because the fixed Parliament legislation brought in to pacify the childish little rat, Clegg has left the timing of a General Election pretty much up to Jeremy Corbyn
  • Jeremy Corbyn says he wants an election - but won't let it happen (because he knows he will loose out)
  • Jeremy Corbyn wanted to leave - but won't because he can't make up his mind - and so his own party won't follow him
  • SNP and LibDem want to Remain and have no intention of following any democratic result anyway

I think that any 'deal' Johnson can get over the line will be the ONLY way leave can happen.

Remember that the 'deal' is only for the 'transition period' up to December 2020, when 'new' trade deals should come into force (the ones the EU has flatly refused to talk about) and is now for no more than 14 months. 

If getting this deal was difficult - wait until we try and negotiate the real trade deals (for the long term post 2020) - that will be when it gets really hard.

 

I am guessing but the average (significant) trade deal would take in the region of 10 to 15 years? 

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6 hours ago, Gordon R said:

They remoaners never give up. The data, scenarios and models are all there, but they want someone else to find them. What will they do when we are out? 

You'll have to find something else to troll me on, pretty shabby and pathetic.

5 hours ago, oowee said:

It's not just the financial hit its all the red tape stuff that is likely to make European travel that much more of a pain. Rather than the almost seamless way we can move about at the moment we will have to think about pensions, driving licences, vehicle standards, telephone, health care, pet passports, firearms licencing the every day stuff.

Agreed. My employer is encouraging me to take dual French citizenship, something that I would have told them to shove where the sun don't shine several years ago but now, it's becoming an increasingly sensible proposition... 

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5 hours ago, Mice! said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't see how leaving will affect us, we won't notice a thing.

Do you seriously believe that? When you say "us" whom do you refer to?

3 hours ago, Dave-G said:

But we'll be taking a serious hit against self government, ability to choose who rules us, our monarch and seemingly our own direction over military matters too if more recent revelations that seem to be getting overlooked are true. Not forgetting the £39B, seems were getting well screwed either way.

Yes indeed, Leavers voted to screw everyone but the un-screwable.

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3 hours ago, Scully said:

I'm of a more positive outlook really, but if it turns out we take a hit then we take a hit. In my opinion it will be well worth it to be free of this up and coming dictatorship. 

Capitalism will find a way to trade, that's what it's all about. 

But you've previously said you don't believe we are going to leave, in which case I agree with your optimism for the future.

41 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

Perhaps you can do your own research. Don't tell me - you have done and can't find any which suit your purpose.

All a bit predictable.

In other words you don't have any. Great contribution as always.

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32 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

knows he will loose out)

I'm really sorry for mentioning it, but the word is lose! Loose is what you do when you loose off a shot, or loose an arrow, or loose a running dog. I know, I know, it's not a big deal and it's not my place to mention it really. But I don't know whether it's on people's predictive spelling software or what, but for the last year or so half the world seems to have taken to writing loose when they mean lose, and for some reason it drives me crazy . They're completely different verbs and they're not even pronounced the same way. Usually I couldn't care less about grammatical or spelling oversights but for whatever reason that one just  hits the spot....

OK I apologize for bringing it up...

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9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

OK I apologize for bringing it up..

I apologise for my error!   More likely my fingers/spelling as I use a laptop (running Firefox) rather than a tablet/phone and don't have predictive.

You may (rightly) disagree with the spelling (or indeed grammar) ......... as long as you agree the content.  😉

I have gone back and corrected the error.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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Just now, Retsdon said:

I'm really sorry for mentioning it, but the word is lose! Loose is what you do when you loose off a shot, or loose an arrow, or loose a running dog. I know, I know, it's not a big deal and it's not my place to mention it really. But I don't know whether it's on people's predictive spelling software or what, but for the last year or so half the world seems to have taken to writing loose when they mean lose, and for some reason it drives me crazy . They're completely different verbs and they're not even pronounced the same way. Usually I couldn't care less about grammatical or spelling oversights but for whatever reason that one just  hits the spot....

OK I apologize for bringing it up...

Having a good day? :lol:

My spelling and grammar is some of the worst. For years i relied upon some excellent PA's to sort reports and letters. Now it's down to spell check, of whatever orientation is on the machine. 😞  So I  apologise  in advance .

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1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

I apologise for my error!   More likely my fingers/spelling as I use a laptop (running Firefox) rather than a tablet/phone and don't have predictive.

You may (rightly) disagree with the spelling (or indeed grammar) ......... as long as you agree the content.  😉

No, no, don't apologize. I'm being a tiresome pedant of the kind that I normally loathe and despise. It's just that lose/loose thing......

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The Lisbon Treaty. EU army, taxation, into the Euro etc etc etc.  I just cannot see the Dictators walking into Catterick Garrison (just about the largest garrison in Europe) and saying you will now fight for Europe under our command. The same happening with the SAS at their Hereford HQ? Are the RAF and Royal Navy included? Seems unbelievable to me, I don't think any of the EU 27 have anything to match us,  so what if our military command says 'on yer bike), war games?

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29 minutes ago, das said:

... Are the RAF and Royal Navy included? ...

Can only speak for the RN but we worked together with NATO countries way back when, what's the difference?

The only ones I didn't like were the Americans, hid by anchoring in the Minches because they couldn't handle a force 8-9, pretty shoddy, Kanuks, cloggies, French, Germans, Danes no problems.

Forgot the Norwegians, great fast torpedo boats.

Edited by henry d
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2 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Don't tell me - you have done and can't find any which suit your purpose.

Honesty, Gordon, if I thought that the UK could leave the EU without suffering major economic damage I'd be all for it. People on this forum don't believe me when I say that at the time of the referendum if i'd had a vote I'd have voted to leave, but it's true. I've never been been a fan of the EU at all.

What's changed is that I've subsequently done a whole lot of reading and research (nothing else to do when stuck in Saudi without the family) and I've come to the conclusion that I would have been wrong in my vote and that leaving the EU is going to be a terribly bad decision for the country to have made. Of course, I might be wrong twice but I don't think so. 

Anyway, it's done now...

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1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

But you've previously said you don't believe we are going to leave, in which case I agree with your optimism for the future.

 

I'm still not convinced we're going to leave, deal or no deal, and in the case of the former then the fight will undoubtedly continue, as it will simply be remaining with a deal rather than leaving with a deal. Saying that, I'm still trying to stay positive. 

I'd be more optimistic about the UK's future outside the EU after leaving no deal , than I would be if remaining in the EU.

I really am puzzled as to why people are willing to be ruled by people who are totally unaccountable, unless of course they're looking no further than the possible detrimental effect some claim it will have upon their personal finances. 

And after all that, it won't have any effect on me in any way if we don't leave. I'll just go back to supporting any campaign to leave. 

It'll be interesting to see what the fallout will consist of if we don't leave, or we leave with a bad deal. Fun and interesting times ahead. 🙂

 

21 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Honesty, Gordon, if I thought that the UK could leave the EU without suffering major economic damage I'd be all for it. People on this forum don't believe me when I say that at the time of the referendum if i'd had a vote I'd have voted to leave, but it's true. I've never been been a fan of the EU at all.

What's changed is that I've subsequently done a whole lot of reading and research (nothing else to do when stuck in Saudi without the family) and I've come to the conclusion that I would have been wrong in my vote and that leaving the EU is going to be a terribly bad decision for the country to have made. Of course, I might be wrong twice but I don't think so. 

Anyway, it's done now...

What were your reasons for wanting to leave? 

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2 minutes ago, Scully said:

What were your reasons for wanting to leave? 

I don't think it's right that people in their hometowns where they were born and brought up should be forced to compete for employment and housing with sharp-elbowed, over-qualified incomers  who come from countries where the cost of living and the wage rates are far lower than in the UK.

And I still think that.

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6 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I don't think it's right that people in their hometowns where they were born and brought up should be forced to compete for employment and housing with sharp-elbowed, over-qualified incomers  who come from countries where the cost of living and the wage rates are far lower than in the UK.

And I still think that.

How do you feel about people who can’t afford to live in their home villages because most have been bought as second homes by sharp elbowed incomers from counties which have higher wage rates and higher costs of living? 

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5 minutes ago, Scully said:

How do you feel about people who can’t afford to live in their home villages because most have been bought as second homes by sharp elbowed incomers from counties which have higher wage rates and higher costs of living? 

The same. What are your thoughts on the topic?

Edited by Retsdon
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