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JohnfromUK
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36 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

 

To avoid doubt I can confirm I would not vote Lib Dem in a referendum 

 

Fair enough;  religion is simply an imagined belief, as is democracy. Both are intangible. 
You needn’t worry about referendums and the Libdems, they obviously have as much belief in those as they do in democracy. Saying that, Swinson does have a reputation for saying one thing and then doing the opposite. 🙂

Edited by Scully
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42 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No, the remainers are exploiting the omni-shambles that is Brexit in exactly the same way Brexiteers would if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

No the remainers are lying, stalling, cheating and using any underhand tactic to undermine and frustrate democracy....brexiteers are fighting to uphold democracy!
 

If remain had won the referendum, leavers would have accepted the democratic decision! The remain parliament would have seen to that!

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31 minutes ago, Scully said:

Fair enough;  religion is simply an imagined belief, as is democracy. Both are intangible. 
You needn’t worry about referendums and the Libdems, they obviously have as much belief in those as they do in democracy. Saying that, Swinson does have a reputation for saying one thing and then doing the opposite. 🙂

Much the same as Boris then.

5 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

No the remainers are lying, stalling, cheating and using any underhand tactic to undermine and frustrate democracy....brexiteers are fighting to uphold democracy!
 

If remain had won the referendum, leavers would have accepted the democratic decision! The remain parliament would have seen to that!

Not really helpful to lump all remainers in the same camp, in the same way that not all Brexiteers are of identical views and desired outcome.

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1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

I believe in democracy, in the same way I believe in religion, it definitely exists.

I am ok with Brexit but not Brexit at any cost.

So you believe in democracy, therefore your ok with the democratic decision to exit the EU?...........but only if it suits you! 🤔 Lol!

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41 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You keep believing that, even the most deluded remainers are realising now that it's going to happen, maybe not Halloween, but it's coming, along with some labour and indy MPs P45s. 

You might well be right, but on the other hand...

If it happens I reckon it’ll be April 1st, just not sure which year.

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7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Much the same as Boris then.

Not really helpful to lump all remainers in the same camp, in the same way that not all Brexiteers are of identical views and desired outcome.

I can only draw conclusions from the remainers on here, in the media, and in Westminster.....I don’t know any others!

And I don’t know any Brexiteers who are trying to overturn democracy!

Edited by panoma1
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4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So you believe in democracy, therefore your ok with the democratic decision to exit the EU?...........but only if it suits you! 🤔 Lol!

Reread what you just wrote, I started writing a reply but your words barely even warrant this reply. Beggars belief.

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4 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

I can only draw conclusions from the remainers on here, in the media, and in Westminster.....I don’t know any others!

And I don’t know any Brexiteers who are trying to overturn democracy!

Seriously, do you live in an isolated bubble? I find your first statement very difficult to believe to be honest.

How about the minority of Brexiteers trying to impose their no deal on everyone. It’s as anti democratic as nearly all the extreme remainer shenanigans.

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

Of course....he’s a politician. 

👍

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

 

Don’t really need to, I just used my words to confirm what you wrote! 

You confirmed something alright.

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Just now, Raja Clavata said:

Seriously, do you live in an isolated bubble? I find your first statement very difficult to believe to be honest.

How about the minority of Brexiteers trying to impose their no deal on everyone. It’s as anti democratic as nearly all the extreme remainer shenanigans.

👍

Believe what you want, that is my opinion!

No deal Brexit is not undemocratic.....the UK voted to leave! The ballot paper did not contain the qualification “only if we have a deal”

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27 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Believe what you want, that is my opinion!

No deal Brexit is not undemocratic.....the UK voted to leave! The ballot paper did not contain the qualification “only if we have a deal”

Say what, how can you saying you don't know any remainers, beyond those you listed, be an opinion, lol? It's either a fact or a fib...

If only the UK Treasury had a pound for every Brexiteer retort on what was on the ballot paper.

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4 hours ago, B725 said:

If Brexit is so bad why didn't JC have a general election when offered is it because they will never win it. 

Obviously, the opposition are supposed to want to gain power, but Labour must know they have no chance in a GE, where as the mess we have now in parliament it's as if Labour are in power already.

20 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

IMG-20191022-WA0012.jpg.e29c3f29208fdf93f9cf9aef3ce1b580.jpg

👏👏👏 

Newsnight are talking about a 3 month extension happening?? That must mean a GE has to happen, how can JC still refuse it 🤔

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Corbyn stated he'd accept a GE once the Brexit deadline was extended / no deal averted (for now at least).

Tusk deciding not to hold another summit on Brexit circumvents the possibility of BoJo lobbying one or member states to veto the extension, smart move.

Latest yougov poll shows Cons + BP at 48% and Lab + Lib Dem + Green at 48% with UKIP approaching 0% and the rest 4% if a GE were held today.

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On 21/10/2019 at 13:42, Raja Clavata said:

My initial tendency towards leave was mostly due to long held biases, including:

I have always maintained that I am anti-Brexit rather than pro-EU, the notion of Brexit appeals to me but I always felt that the majority of us would be worse off as a result of it for some time and since one of the key desires I have in life is for my kids to do better than I did (as my father wished for my brother and I) it really did not make sense for me to endorse leaving the EU.

 

Thank you for taking the time give such a detailed and thoughtful response 👍 (for anyone reading this later, I have deleted most of the quote, so as to not clutter the thread too much).

I asked because it seemed such a radical change, but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

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9 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Corbyn stated he'd accept a GE once the Brexit deadline was extended / no deal averted (for now at least).

Tusk deciding not to hold another summit on Brexit circumvents the possibility of BoJo lobbying one or member states to veto the extension, smart move.

Latest yougov poll shows Cons + BP at 48% and Lab + Lib Dem + Green at 48% with UKIP approaching 0% and the rest 4% if a GE were held today.

The poll is only relevant in proportional representation in actual first past the post conservatives would have a majority.

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11 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Say what, how can you saying (Don’t you mean say?) you don't know any remainers, beyond those you listed, be an opinion, lol? It's either a fact or a fib...

If only the UK Treasury had a pound for every Brexiteer retort on what was on the ballot paper.

There you go, I’ve corrected your error! Lol!

My opinion was formed from the remainers I mentioned in my posting, and the fact I don’t know anyone who is a  remainer! 

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8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

There you go, I’ve corrected your error! Lol!

My opinion was formed from the remainers I mentioned in my posting, and the fact I don’t know anyone who is a  remainer! 

Well thanks for that, doesn't alter my point about your "opinion" but anyway, do have a nice day in your remainer free zone.

9 hours ago, SneakyD said:

Thank you for taking the time give such a detailed and thoughtful response 👍 (for anyone reading this later, I have deleted most of the quote, so as to not clutter the thread too much).

I asked because it seemed such a radical change, but your explanation makes a lot of sense.

No problem, you asked a fair question and the real point of posting here (beyond the petty bickering and circular arguments) is to share views and try to understand the different perspectives better.

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I have been desperately trying to keep 6 ft under the sand as the ineptness of our politicians in coming to an adult agreement in over 3 years amounts to collective high treason in my view.

My good lady read me out something last night which made me chuckle as many a word spoken in jest etc. I cannot remember exactly what she read out but it went something along the lines of ....

It is 2123 and the british prime minister is visiting Brussels today to apply for the UK's annual extension to brexit. This has now become something of a tourist attraction although no-one seems to be able to remember why it is needed.

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6 minutes ago, 243deer said:

I have been desperately trying to keep 6 ft under the sand as the ineptness of our politicians in coming to an adult agreement in over 3 years amounts to collective high treason in my view.

My good lady read me out something last night which made me chuckle as many a word spoken in jest etc. I cannot remember exactly what she read out but it went something along the lines of ....

It is 2123 and the british prime minister is visiting Brussels today to apply for the UK's annual extension to brexit. This has now become something of a tourist attraction although no-one seems to be able to remember why it is needed.

Long before that time , there wont be an EU .🤣🤣🤣

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Looking increasingly like a delay to January , unless BJ pulls a flanker on a no deal exit.

Corbyn has indicated that he will push for an election now, and lead his beleaguered army to slaughter, amid rumbles of discontent within the ranks of labour at his reluctance to fight for a 2nd ref, with Burgon calling the advocates of the so called 'peoples vote' FANTASY politics :lol:
I dont know if hes noticed, but the labour party has been in fantasy land for the last 25 years !

Whilst some Brexiters will be dismayed, its been clearly demonstrated to the electorate at large, who is to blame for this dithering behaviour, and its certainly not Boris .

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