BREXIT

[oowee]

8 minutes ago, martyn2233 said:

Not what the man who owns it say’s so NOT ours for the taking 

BECAUSE of the mess we are in. Everything is in place here except engagement (stable govt) and the ability to commit (trade arrangements) to delivery.

1 minute ago, Raja Clavata said:

A serious kick in the gonads for the UK government, its industrial strategy and investment around the Faraday Challenge etc. Not quite a Coup de grace but would have offset the impact of the Dyson EV failure somewhat.

Berlin is certainly looking like the place to be for cutting edge automotive in Europe and a nicer / trendier environment than the likes of Munich for example. VW are setting up a software engineering capability there with up to 6000 staff with Berlin chosen to try and attract the young dynamic types.

Lets see how long it takes for our space partnership to follow. 

[Raja Clavata]

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lets see how long it takes for our space partnership to follow. 

Indeed.

To be honest I'm still a little skeptical as to how well Tesla will do in the long run in Automotive once the conventional guys catch up - would you choose a Tesla over a Porsche EV for example?

But, undeniably Space X is something altogether different.

[Dave-G]

EU has been slowly but surely stripping UK assets and abilities for some time. I'm EU sceptic enough to assume that was just a sour grapes teach us a lesson type thang to make it look like we lost out on something that never would have come here in reality.

[Raja Clavata]

19 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

EU has been slowly but surely stripping UK assets and abilities for some time. I'm EU sceptic enough to assume that was just a sour grapes teach us a lesson type thang to make it look like we lost out on something that never would have come here in reality.

You what?

[oowee]

19 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Indeed.

To be honest I'm still a little skeptical as to how well Tesla will do in the long run in Automotive once the conventional guys catch up - would you choose a Tesla over a Porsche EV for example?

But, undeniably Space X is something altogether different.

Likewise. I have looked at some of the Tesla stuff and fit and finish is not what you expect at the price. 

[grrclark]

It is an interesting twist in the thread referencing the Tesla gigfactory, setting aside where it is located, how sustainable is the endeavour of electric vehicles and more importantly the batteries contained within.  To get to a point where all new cars sold on the road by 2040 are electric would mean a 28 fold increase in annual cobalt production and 60% of what we already have comes from Democratic Republic of Congo where corruption and child exploitation is rife in the mining industry.

In order to meet the mineral demand to produce that volume we are having to consider very deep sub sea mining of volcanic vents, basically smashing those into sufficiently small pieces to vacuum them back up to the surface for processing.

Deep sea oil extraction is almost at the tipping point where it is environmentally unconscionable , see the National Portrait Gallery wishing to disassociate  themselves from BP as a very recent example, yet we are actively investigating deep sea mining with untold consequence to feed the “environmentally friendly’ alternative.  Who will monitor and police the actions of the mining companies where remote mining vehicles, the same as work in large scale coal mines, work 3 miles beneath the sea surface?

Is there no sense of irony in those that who are so quick to castigate the use of hydrocarbons as an economic driver, but they are in a fervent clamour to associate and benefit from battery and EV production that could be even more catastrophic on the environment and actively feeds corruption and exploitation.

Edited November 14, 2019 by grrclark
Typos...

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It was ours for the taking.

It's not built yet. 

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

It's not built yet. 

Its that time of year when the dividends are in and you look for your next punt.

Where would you put your hard earned? 

[Rewulf]

7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You what?

 

27 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

to make it look like we lost out on something that never would have come here in reality

This ^

Who said it WAS definitely coming to the UK? 

INDEED, who is saying its going to Germany? 

[Dave-G]

12 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You what?

I think I explained my thinking quite clearly there - sorry if it made you choke. 

[Raja Clavata]

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

Likewise. I have looked at some of the Tesla stuff and fit and finish is not what you expect at the price. 

Me too. They also use their evangelical customer base to beta test their products (in production). And sometimes after a SOTA update the car says no😉

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, grrclark said:

It is an interesting twist in the thread referencing the Tesla gigfactory, setting aside where it is located, how sustainable is the endeavour of electric vehicles and more importantly the batteries contained within.  To get to a point where all new cars sold on the road by 2040 are electric would mean a 28 fold increase in annual cobalt production and 60% of what we already have comes from Democratic Republic of Congo where corruption and child exploitation is rife in the mining industry.

In order to meet the mineral demand to produce that volume we are having to consider very deep sub sea mining of volcanic vents, basically smashing those into sufficiently small pieces to vacuum them back up to the surface for processing.

Deep sea oil extraction is almost at the tipping point where it is environmentally unconscionable , see the National Portrait Gallery wishing to disassociate  themselves from BP as a very recent example, yet we are actively investigating deep sea mining with untold consequence to feed the “environmentally friendly’ alternative.  Who will monitor and police the actions of the mining companies where remote mining vehicles, the same as work in large scale coal mines, work 3 miles beneath the sea surface?

Is there no sense of irony in those that who are so quick to castigate the use of hydrocarbons as an economic driver, but they are in a fervent clamour to associate and benefit from battery and EV production that could be even more catastrophic on the environment and actively feeds corruption and exploitation.

Not to mention lithium and the coup in Bolivia.

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

I think I explained my thinking quite clearly there - sorry if it made you choke. 

Not choking, just wondering if there’s anything you don’t blame on the EU 🤪

[Centrepin]

[Aled]

Centrepin, there is many a true word said in jest.

Aled

[Dave-G]

On 14/11/2019 at 18:21, Raja Clavata said:

Not to mention lithium and the coup in Bolivia.

Not choking, just wondering if there’s anything you don’t blame on the EU 🤪

Very little, I'm mildly dyslexic and don't have great word power skills so tend to be unable to explain or back up my comments properly but I feel unelected (by us) EU dictators who are not even a country have interfered in aspects of our daily lives and neutered our industrial capacity and mindset that we used to be able to rely on to prepare and defend our country against attack from across the channel. 

We even now 'assist' illegal economic and potential terrorist migrants that are still way out to sea in the channel who are more likely to take the risk of trying to get here. 

I don't have an issue with genuine Europeans coming here because they generally have similar customs to our own. But for us to surrender and allow EU to determine, for example: we must take people from clearly different cultures who hate anyone who doesn't 'believe' rest unsaid, and the UCHR prevent us from clearing out the likes of Hook and his sponging hateful family etc is the time to say no more of that is going on here - dress it up any way you like because as said - I'm not clever at words.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Dave-G said:

Very little, I'm mildly dyslexic and don't have great word power skills so tend to be unable to explain or back up my comments properly but I feel unelected (by us) EU dictators who are not even a country have interfered in aspects of our daily lives and neutered our industrial capacity and mindset that we used to be able to rely on to prepare and defend our country against attack from across the channel. 

We even now 'assist' illegal economic and potential terrorist migrants that are still way out to sea in the channel who are more likely to take the risk of trying to get here. 

I don't have an issue with genuine Europeans coming here because they generally have similar customs to our own. But for us to surrender and allow EU to determine, for example: we must take people from clearly different cultures who hate anyone who doesn't 'believe' rest unsaid, and the UCHR prevent us from clearing out the likes of Hook and his sponging hateful family etc is the time to say no more of that is going on here - dress it up any way you like because as said - I'm not clever at words.

I see exactly where you are coming from. Lots of the stuff that's printed about immigration is simply made up rubbish that plays to a particular audience. There are always two sides to a story and with the press as it is I would take much of it with a pinch of salt. This stuff plays on hysteria, fear and ignorance until it becomes the adopted wisdom and truth, when often it is little more than a fantasy.

Unfortunately we then start to make policy decisions based on peoples fears. The latest is this points based immigration system. A large source of immigration to the UK is from outside of the EU where we currently have immigration control. Ask yourself how a one world level playing field for immigration will work, compared to the open border policy for Europe. How will we fill vacancies in care, hospitality and farming with a min £30k salary threshold for migration. A large number of European workers will return to Europe in later years. Will this happen with workers from the sub continent? What opportunities are lost to workers from the UK to seek work in Europe. 

As for Hook i presume you mean Abu Hamza. These cases are tough and may make the UK look like a soft touch but the rule of law is everything here and what sets us apart from an uncivilised world. The day we start to bend the rules with torture and open ended detention, as chosen by the US, is the day we all have to be afraid of our own civilisation. 

 

[Rewulf]

44 minutes ago, oowee said:

Lots of the stuff that's printed about immigration is simply made up rubbish that plays to a particular audience

Perhaps you could furnish us with a few examples of this 'made up stuff' as I believe most of us here are, in fact that 'particular audience' 

 

47 minutes ago, oowee said:

As for Hook i presume you mean Abu Hamza. These cases are tough and may make the UK look like a soft touch but the rule of law is everything here and what sets us apart from an uncivilised world. The day we start to bend the rules with torture and open ended detention, as chosen by the US, is the day we all have to be afraid of our own civilisation

These cases are 'tough? 😂 

These cases are utterly embarrassing. And when you talk about OUR rule of law, you actually mean the EUs. 

The best bit is when you mention how we don't want to end up afraid of OUR  civilisation? Which is funny, because it's THEIR version of civilisation, or lack of it, that we are really afraid of. 

[oowee]

What would you suggest to avoid your embarrassment? Why do I mean the EU's? Are you suggesting that ECHR should be binned alongside our EU protections? 

20 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

These cases are utterly embarrassing. And when you talk about OUR rule of law, you actually mean the EUs. 

 

[Rewulf]

13 minutes ago, oowee said:

What would you suggest to avoid your embarrassment? Why do I mean the EU's? Are you suggesting that ECHR should be binned alongside our EU protections? 

 

Protections? 😁

Give me an example of when the ECHR has protected the UK? 

It's however done a sterling job of protecting foreign criminals, terrorists and sex offenders. 

Damn right I'm saying bin it, ASAP. 

Not fit for purpose, and not needed, just another station on the gravy train. 

[oowee]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

Protections? 😁

Give me an example of when the ECHR has protected the UK? 

It's however done a sterling job of protecting foreign criminals, terrorists and sex offenders. 

Damn right I'm saying bin it, ASAP. 

Not fit for purpose, and not needed, just another station on the gravy train. 

Crikey. Out of the EU and workers protection, Out of the Council of Europe and the Human Rights act. What next the Paris Agreement or perhaps the UN and UNCAT?

Residents of the UK should be worried when leaving the EU is only the thin end of the wedge of a fascist state. 

[Rewulf]

Just now, oowee said:

Crikey. Out of the EU and workers protection, Out of the Council of Europe and the Human Rights act. What next the Paris Agreement or perhaps the UN and UNCAT?

Residents of the UK should be worried when leaving the EU is only the thin end of the wedge of a fascist state. 

Oh my days! 😂 

The EU has given us everything, taught us how to look after our workers, the environment, taught us how to feed ourselves and wipe our behinds. 

It gave us our humanity! Because before that we had NOTHING! 🤔

Without it we will surely go back to living in caves, or something... 

But best of all, it held back the spectre of FASCISM! 

As soon as we leave, the swastika will be unfurled over the houses of Parliament, and the new order will be proclaimed! 

Ein volk! Ein riech! Ein Farage! 🤣

[Westward]

8 minutes ago, oowee said:

 leaving the EU is only the thin end of the wedge of a fascist state. 

You are truly fantastic. Do you by any chance write conspiracy novels?

Edited November 18, 2019 by Westward

[oowee]

9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Oh my days! 😂 

The EU has given us everything, taught us how to look after our workers, the environment, taught us how to feed ourselves and wipe our behinds. 

It gave us our humanity! Because before that we had NOTHING! 🤔

Without it we will surely go back to living in caves, or something... 

But best of all, it held back the spectre of FASCISM! 

As soon as we leave, the swastika will be unfurled over the houses of Parliament, and the new order will be proclaimed! 

Ein volk! Ein riech! Ein Farage! 🤣

Leaving the EU is clearly not enough for some you are now proposing we ditch the Council of Europe along with the EU. Human rights to follow workers rights to the scrap yard is surely the preparations for a centralised one party dictatorship. 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Leaving the EU is clearly not enough for some you are now proposing we ditch the Council of Europe along with the EU. Human rights to follow workers rights to the scrap yard is surely the preparations for a centralised one party dictatorship. 

That's a big bag of assumptions youre carrying there! Let me help you with that. 

We are just leaving a trading bloc aren't we? 😏

 

[Scully]

29 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

Residents of the UK should be worried when leaving the EU is only the thin end of the wedge of a fascist state. 

😂