BREXIT

[panoma1]

It’s really a question of positivity against negativity, no one knows for certain, but I choose to look positively at the future of the UK post Brexit, the “Brexit skeptics” choose to look at it negatively!.....and the remainers.......well they just try to undermine and subvert democracy, because the country didn’t vote as they wanted!

[panoma1]

10 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Not going to have much choice. Won't be in a position to resist.

And there's this from the other side of the globe.

India’s government has made it clear that it will be in no rush to reach a trade deal with the UK without significant concessions on movement of people.  https://www.ft.com/content/56074dda-95bd-11e9-8cfb-30c211dcd229

So the Poles will be replaced from India. Again, this will be the new Britain Unchained. An unregulated melting pot - a free marketeers wet dream. It's called 'taking back control'.

 

So you have inside information?..............Or have you consulted your Chrystal ball?

 

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So you have inside information?..............Or have you consulted your Chrystal ball?

Don't need a crystal ball. It comes straight from the horse's mouth. Scroll these Indian headlines. https://www.business-standard.com/topic/boris-johnson

[panoma1]

18 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Not going to have much choice. Won't be in a position to resist.

 

So the UK hasn’t accepted it then?.........More guesswork!

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So the UK hasn’t accepted it then?.........More guesswork!

So what are the alternatives? 

 

 

[Scully]

33 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Just curious why you think that?

To leave by any other means is to leave in name only. 

[panoma1]

8 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

So what are the alternatives? 

 

 

You have not answered my question, but you have replied with this question.....so I will ask again, has the UK accepted it? Or are you just guessing?

[Gordon R]

Quote

So what are the alternatives? 

The alternative is to stop putting a negative spin on any scrap of news, which suits your purpose. The UK/ US trade "leak / scoop" from Labour has been rubbished - rightly. I assume that Indian papers always print the truth - bit like the UK.

We voted to leave - the small print is irrelevant to me. 

[Retsdon]

4 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

The UK/ US trade "leak / scoop" from Labour has been rubbished

So you mean the US government document that I linked to was a fake?

5 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

The alternative is to stop putting a negative spin on any scrap of news, which suits your purpose.

What purpose do you imagine that I have?

7 minutes ago, Scully said:

To leave by any other means is to leave in name only. 

But do you at some point actually want a trade agreement of one kind or another with the EU? 

[Gordon R]

Quote

What purpose do you imagine that I have?

I put it down to a flawed character. You seem to love being a pessimist. 😉

[panoma1]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

Meet the new boss. https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files/Summary_of_U.S.-UK_Negotiating_Objectives.pdf

 

59 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

50 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Not going to have much choice. Won't be in a position to resist.

 

So the UK has accepted this then?

 

37 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So you have inside information?..............Or have you consulted your Chrystal ball?

 

This is what I asked if you had inside information about or a crystal ball!

30 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Don't need a crystal ball. It comes straight from the horse's mouth. Scroll these Indian headlines. https://www.business-standard.com/topic/boris-johnson

This is what you answered........chucking in another topic in order to prop up your claim and deflect/avoid answering my question!

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

This is what you answered........chucking in another topic in order to prop up your claim and deflect/avoid answering my question!

I thought the answer was so obviously 'no' that it was a rhetorical question you were asking. Of course the UK hasn't agreed. Nobody has sat down at a table yet. But I'm predicting that when they do, the UK will not be in a position to refuse anyone whatever they want. With Johnson at the helm the country is backing itself into the worst possible negotiating position it could find. A deadline to exit and no proper exit plan. He's a political animal 100% and couldn't care less about outcomes just as long has he can be in the headlines. He even backpedalled to give the EU the wet border that May had refused as one of her red lines.

But maybe the Indians and Americans will take pity on us and go easy when it comes to extracting concessions.

[panoma1]

So why do you feel the UK will not be able to refuse anyone whatever they want? Do all countries have everything the UK wants and does the UK have nothing other countries want?........Of course not!
Its the remainers (the enemy within) who have thusfar undermined our negotiating position and scuppered the UK’s chances of an advantageous withdrawal agreement, hopefully post Brexit they will get behind UK plc........instead of continuing to sabotage it?

 

[Scully]

53 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

 

But do you at some point actually want a trade agreement of one kind or another with the EU? 

I’ve always said I don’t mind who we trade with, but first we must leave. No payout, not a penny, just leave. 

[panoma1]

26 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I thought the answer was so obviously 'no' that it was a rhetorical question you were asking. Of course the UK hasn't agreed. Nobody has sat down at a table yet. But I'm predicting that when they do, the UK will not be in a position to refuse anyone whatever they want. With Johnson at the helm the country is backing itself into the worst possible negotiating position it could find. A deadline to exit and no proper exit plan. He's a political animal 100% and couldn't care less about outcomes just as long has he can be in the headlines. He even backpedalled to give the EU the wet border that May had refused as one of her red lines.

But maybe the Indians and Americans will take pity on us and go easy when it comes to extracting concessions.

More negativity and guesswork?

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

More negativity and guesswork?

Read Sir Ivan's lecture and tell me where he's wrong. 

 

[panoma1]

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Read Sir Ivan's lecture and tell me where he's wrong. 

 

So it isn’t your opinion/prediction it’s Sir Ivan’s!....I don’t think I’ll bother! I don’t take much notice of other people’s opinions, especially when they are potentially biased, preferring to make decisions on known fact....which is what I based my decision on, when I voted to leave the EU.

How do you make your decisions? Not on facts it seems, but by listening to speculative, possibly biased predictions.......if it fits in with your own?

[Retsdon]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

How do you make your decisions? Not on facts it seems, but by listening to speculative, possibly biased predictions

Sure. What do you base yours on? Faith?

Anyway, never mind. It's a circular conversation that just goes round and round. We can have that same one in 2 years time and see who was right.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Retsdon

[panoma1]

Just now, Retsdon said:

Sure. What do you base yours on? Faith?

Nope! I’ve already posted what I based my decision on!

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Nope! I’ve already posted what I based my decision on!

See the edit above. Bed time here...

[panoma1]

Just now, Retsdon said:

See the edit above. Bed time here...

I agree! Lol! Nite, nite!

[Dave-G]

 

[oowee]

15 hours ago, panoma1 said:

Making the country the arbiter of its own future! Not having it decided by others!

Every Country within the EU ultimately has responsibility for its own actions and for it's citizens now.  That said every country bends with the wind dependent on the benefits or otherwise of doing so. Trade in all it's forms from goods, to services from people to knowledge, from travel to regulation all work to exert pressure on government to act in certain ways. In some of the arrangements you loose, in some you gain and that is the nature of getting along for greater mutual benefit. The role and purpose of the EU is simply to put a framework in place and a series of common objectives that act as the guiding principles for those arrangements. 

In or out of the EU it is hard to see how those pressures will change. A good example is fisheries. Whilst it is a relatively insignificant industry in the grande scheme of things it does reflect many of the 'Brexit' objective's of taking back control. The fishing community voted heavily to leave. The Brexit party said; ''There will be nothing to negotiate - all the resources defined in UK waters currently held by other EU member states and allocated under an EU system will be automatically returned to the UK" The fishing community believed the lies. 

Through the withdrawl agreement fishing has been tied to the wider trade deal. May agreed to include  "the Parties should establish a new fisheries agreement on… access to waters and [fishing] quota shares." simply because to do otherwise was to embroil the UK in a massively complex  negotiation to exclude French Boats and give the UK access to French markets where a large proportion of UK caught fish, is sold.

Boris strongly objected saying "This is not what was promised to the people of this country,"  "let alone the fishing communities of Scotland. And if history teaches us anything, it is that our European friends will not desist until they have worked out a way to plunder Scottish waters for their fish." However having taken the reigns as PM he quickly realised the stupidity of his argument and signed up anyway because he needed a deal to sell to the UK.  

If Boris gets overall control in the election he has until July 1st to agree a trade deal which will include fishing. There are two principle options.

1. Exclude France and Spain from UK waters and not complete Heads of Terms for trade.

2. Sacrifice the relatively small fishing industry to be able to claim progress. 

The UK is ultimately responsible for it's own decisions. Those decisions are not without consequences. For every action there is an opposite reaction. When we leave the EU we leave the basic framework that provides the guiding principles of fairness that supports those decisions. We will still be subject to the same pressures.

[Raja Clavata]

17 hours ago, panoma1 said:

You made comment, I did not see any question marks in your reply, so to what question do you refer?
I didn’t state who was right or who was wrong I merely drew the comparison with my fact and your guesswork and supposition!
I have already written how I consider the EU has been detrimental to this country and therefore to myself!
I care what happens to this country, how dare you imply I don’t when it’s you and your fellow undemocratic remainers who are constantly trying to subvert the UK’s chances of success post Brexit.

What is this “what good looks like” you claim I want to have a go at telling you brexit skeptics?

I didn't imply you don't care about the country, I suggested that you bought into the lies of those who don't and now hold their distortions of reality as fact.

You comment on guesswork and supposition is amusing.

I missed out "might" in my previous reply, apologies for that oversight, I was inviting you to outline what UK "success" looks like after Brexit, but never mind...

[Retsdon]

4 hours ago, oowee said:

Every Country within the EU ultimately has responsibility for its own actions and for it's citizens now.  That said every country bends with the wind dependent on the benefits or otherwise of doing so. Trade in all it's forms from goods, to services from people to knowledge, from travel to regulation all work to exert pressure on government to act in certain ways. In some of the arrangements you loose, in some you gain and that is the nature of getting along for greater mutual benefit. The role and purpose of the EU is simply to put a framework in place and a series of common objectives that act as the guiding principles for those arrangements. 

In or out of the EU it is hard to see how those pressures will change. A good example is fisheries. Whilst it is a relatively insignificant industry in the grande scheme of things it does reflect many of the 'Brexit' objective's of taking back control. The fishing community voted heavily to leave. The Brexit party said; ''There will be nothing to negotiate - all the resources defined in UK waters currently held by other EU member states and allocated under an EU system will be automatically returned to the UK" The fishing community believed the lies. 

Through the withdrawl agreement fishing has been tied to the wider trade deal. May agreed to include  "the Parties should establish a new fisheries agreement on… access to waters and [fishing] quota shares." simply because to do otherwise was to embroil the UK in a massively complex  negotiation to exclude French Boats and give the UK access to French markets where a large proportion of UK caught fish, is sold.

Boris strongly objected saying "This is not what was promised to the people of this country,"  "let alone the fishing communities of Scotland. And if history teaches us anything, it is that our European friends will not desist until they have worked out a way to plunder Scottish waters for their fish." However having taken the reigns as PM he quickly realised the stupidity of his argument and signed up anyway because he needed a deal to sell to the UK.  

If Boris gets overall control in the election he has until July 1st to agree a trade deal which will include fishing. There are two principle options.

1. Exclude France and Spain from UK waters and not complete Heads of Terms for trade.

2. Sacrifice the relatively small fishing industry to be able to claim progress. 

The UK is ultimately responsible for it's own decisions. Those decisions are not without consequences. For every action there is an opposite reaction. When we leave the EU we leave the basic framework that provides the guiding principles of fairness that supports those decisions. We will still be subject to the same pressures.

Great post!