BREXIT

[Rewulf]

BJ s speech in Greenwich about our future trade prospects. 

Try to imagine Corbyn, or literally any opposition party member delivering such a speech. 

This must be the horror of nationalism the EU warned us about 🤣

Full transcript of the Prime Minister's speech at Greenwich for any interested.

It certainly speaks volumes on free trade and free markets, the sort of language that has been sadly lacking in recent years. It's a very welcome response to our post Brexit situation and firmly lays down our ambitions for the future relationship with the EU and our other international freinds and partners.

It's a lengthy read but certainly worth it.

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"It is great to welcome everyone here to Greenwich and I invite you first to raise your eyes to the heavens. The Vatican has Michelangelo. Greenwich has Thornhill who spent 20 years flat on his back on top of the scaffolding, so rigid that his arm became permanently wonky, and he’s left us this gorgeous and slightly bonkers symbolic scene that captures the spirit of the United Kingdom in the early 18th century.

This painting above you was started in 1707, the very year when the union with Scotland was agreed – and does it not speak of supreme national self-confidence? Look at these well fed nymphs and cupids and what have you. They are not just celebrating the triumph of liberty and peace over tyranny – the official title of the scene. This is the settlement of a long and divisive political question about who gets to sit on the throne of England. And it is visibly resolved as you can see in favour of William and Mary – and the result is stability and certainty and optimism and an explosion of global trade propelled by new maritime technology.

Above and around us you can see the anchors, cables, rudders, sails, oars, ensigns, powder barrels, sextants, the compasses and the grappling irons. In fact the only important bit of kit that is missing is Harrison’s sea clock – also exhibited close-by here in Greenwich and also commissioned in the same era, that allowed every ship in the world to determine how far they were from this Meridian.

So this is it. This is the newly forged United Kingdom on the slipway: this is the moment when it all took off. And – you know where this is going – today if we get it right, if we have the courage to follow the instincts and the instructions of the British people, this can be another such moment on the launching pad. Because once again we have settled a long-running question of sovereign authority, we have ended a debate that has run for three and a half years – some would say 47 years. I won’t even mention the name of the controversy except to say that it begins with B. Receding in the past behind us.

We have the opportunity, we have the newly recaptured powers, we know where we want to go, and that is out into the world. And today in Geneva as our ambassador Julian Braithwaite moves seats in the WTO and takes back control of our tariff schedules – an event in itself that deserves itself to be immortalised in oil – this country is leaving its chrysalis. We are re-emerging after decades of hibernation as a campaigner for global free trade. And frankly it is not a moment too soon because the argument for this fundamental liberty is now not being made.

We in the global community are in danger of forgetting the key insight of those great Scottish thinkers, the invisible hand of Adam Smith, and of course David Ricardo’s more subtle but indispensable principle of comparative advantage, which teaches that if countries learn to specialise and exchange then overall wealth will increase and productivity will increase, leading Cobden to conclude that free trade is God’s diplomacy – the only certain way of uniting people in the bonds of peace since the more freely goods cross borders the less likely it is that troops will ever cross borders.

And since these notions were born here in this country, it has been free trade that has done more than any other single economic idea to raise billions out of poverty and incredibly fast. In 1990 there were 37 per cent of the world’s population in absolute poverty – that is now down to less than ten per cent. And yet my friends, I am here to warn you today that this beneficial magic is fading. Free trade is being choked and that is no fault of the people, that’s no fault of individual consumers, I am afraid it is the politicians who are failing to lead.

The mercantilists are everywhere, the protectionists are gaining ground. From Brussels to China to Washington tariffs are being waved around like cudgels even in debates on foreign policy where frankly they have no place – and there is an ever growing proliferation of non-tariff barriers and the resulting tensions are letting the air out of the tyres of the world economy. World trading volumes are lagging behind global growth.

Trade used to grow at roughly double global GDP – from 1987 to 2007. Now it barely keeps pace and global growth is itself anaemic and the decline in global poverty is beginning to slow. In that context, we are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric, when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage, then at that moment humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion, of the right of the populations of the earth to buy and sell freely among each other.

Here in Greenwich in the first week of February 2020, I can tell you in all humility that the UK is ready for that role. We are ready for the great multi-dimensional game of chess in which we engage in more than one negotiation at once and we are limbering up to use nerves and muscles and instincts that this country has not had to use for half a century. Secretary of State Liz Truss tells me she has the teams in place: She has the lawyers, top dollar I’ve no doubt, the economists, trade policy experts and if we don’t have enough, or if they don’t perform, believe me we will hire some more. We will reach out to the rest of the Commonwealth, which now has some of the fastest growing economies in the world.

It was fantastic at the recent Africa summit to see how many wanted to turn that great family of nations into a free trade zone, even if we have to begin with clumps and groups, and we will take these ideas forward at Kigali in June. We will engage with Japan and the other Trans-Pacific agreement countries, with old friends and partners – Australia, New Zealand, Canada – on whom we deliberately turned our backs in the early 1970s. We will get going with our friends in America and I share the optimism of Donald Trump and I say to all the naïve and juvenile anti-Americans in this country if there are any – there seem to be some I say grow up – and get a grip. The US already buys one fifth of everything we export.

And yes of course there are going to be difficulties: Our shower trays seem to fall foul US rules Liz, and if you want to sell insurance across America, Mr Ambassador, you still have to deal with 50 separate regulators, and it is high time I think we all agree that they cut their punitive tariffs on Scotch whisky. And it goes without saying to all those conspiracy theorists who may still be in existence, all those believers in the Bermuda Triangle or who think that Elvis will be found on Mars: it goes without saying that of course the NHS is not on the table and no, we will not accept any diminution in food hygiene or animal welfare standards. But I must say to the America bashers in this country if there are any that in doing free trade deals we will be governed by science and not by mumbo-jumbo because the potential is enormous.

Of course that brings me to the other area where the potential is great we want a thriving trade and economic relationship with the EU, our historic friend, partners, neighbours and I shall table a parliamentary statement today spelling out our objectives. And at the outset I wish to reassure our friends about one thing: to lay one myth to rest. We will not engage in some cut-throat race to the bottom. We are not leaving the EU to undermine European standards, we will not engage in any kind of dumping whether commercial, or social, or environmental, and don’t just listen to what I say or what we say, look at what we do.

I say respectfully to our friends that in all those three crucial areas the anxiety should really be on our side of the Channel not yours. Look at state aid: France spends twice as much on state aid as the UK, and Germany three times as much, who is using subsidies to undercut? Not the UK. In fact, the EU has enforced state aid rules against the UK only four times in the last 21 years, compared with 29 enforcement actions against France, 45 against Italy – and 67 against Germany. The same applies even more emphatically to social policy – and here again I dispel the absurd caricature of Britain as a nation bent on the slash and burn of workers’ rights and environmental protection, as if we are saved from Dickensian squalor only by enlightened EU regulation, as if it was only thanks to Brussels that we are not preparing to send children back up chimneys.

In one field after another, Britain is far ahead. The EU waited until last year before introducing two weeks of paid paternity leave; we in the UK guaranteed that right nearly two decades ago. The EU gives employees the right to request flexible working only if they are parents or carers. The UK provides that right to every employee with more than six months’ service – and they can make the request for any reason. The EU provides a minimum of 14 weeks paid maternity leave; Britain offers up to a year, with 39 weeks paid and an option to convert this to shared parental leave.

How about that. The UK has a higher minimum wage than all but three EU member states: in fact six EU countries have no minimum wage at all. As for the environment, look at animal welfare. It is not just that we want to go further than the EU in banning live shipment of animals: there are ways in which we already are further ahead. The UK banned veal crates fully 16 years before the EU. We are protecting elephants by introducing one of the strictest ivory bans in the world; and the EU, meanwhile, is still in the consultation stage.

And on the great environmental issue of our time, perhaps the greatest issue facing humanity, Britain was the first major economy in the world – let alone the EU – to place upon our own shoulders a legal obligation to be carbon neutral by 2050. That will put huge strains on our system, it will require full effort and change but we know we can do it. We have cut our carbon emissions by nearly twice the EU average since 1990, 42 per cent, and we have cut while the GDP has grown by about 70 per cent. But here is the question: are we going to insist that the EU does everything that we do, as the price of free trade? Are we? Of course not. Our legislation to ban single-use plastics goes further and faster than anything proposed by the EU.

Does that mean we will refuse to accept a zero-tariff zero-quota deal with the EU unless the EU agrees to match us every step of the way? Will we stop Italian cars or German wine from entering this country tariff free, or quota free, unless the EU matches our UK laws on plastic coffee stirrers or maternity leave or unless they match our laws in any other field of policy that might conceivably affect the production of an Alfa Romeo or a bottle of gewürztraminer? Will we accuse them of dumping? Of course not. Or wanting to dump? Of course not.

So I hope our friends will understand that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. There is no need for a free trade agreement to involve accepting EU rules on competition policy, subsidies, social protection, the environment, or anything similar any more than the EU should be obliged to accept UK rules. The UK will maintain the highest standards in these areas – better, in many respects, than those of the EU – without the compulsion of a treaty. And it is vital to say this now clearly because we have so often been told that we must choose between full access to the EU market, along with accepting its rules and courts on the Norway model, or a free trade agreement, which opens up markets and avoids the full panoply of EU regulation, like the Canada deal.

Well folks I hope you’ve got the message by now. We have made our choice: we want a comprehensive free trade agreement, similar to Canada’s. But in the very unlikely event that we do not succeed, then our trade will have to be based on our existing Withdrawal Agreement with the EU. The choice is emphatically not “deal or no-deal”. We have a deal – we’ve done it and yes it did turn out as I prophesied to be oven ready.

The question is whether we agree a trading relationship with the EU comparable to Canada’s – or more like Australia’s. And I have no doubt that in either case the UK will prosper. And of course our new relationship with our closest neighbours will range far beyond trade.

We will seek a pragmatic agreement on security, on protecting our citizens without trespassing on the autonomy of our respective legal systems. I hope that we can reach an agreement on aviation, allowing cheap flights to continue.  We are ready to consider an agreement on fisheries, but it must reflect the fact that the UK will be an independent coastal state at the end of this year 2020, controlling our own waters. And under such an agreement, there would be annual negotiations with the EU, using the latest scientific data, ensuring that British fishing grounds are first and foremost for British boats.

And in all these other areas, I see the same need for warmth, we’ll deliver that for cooperation for friendship and exchange and va et vien, for academics, students and businesses but I see no need to bind ourselves to an agreement with the EU.

We will restore full sovereign control over our borders and immigration, competition and subsidy rules, procurement and data protection And while we will always cooperate with our European friends in foreign and defence policy whenever our interests converge – as they often, if not always, will – this will not in my view necessarily require any new treaty or institutions because we will not need them for the simple reason that the UK is not a European power by treaty or by law but by irrevocable facts of history and geography and language and culture and instinct and sentiment.

And I have set in train the biggest review of our foreign defence and security policies since the Cold War, which is designed to seize the opportunities that lie ahead and make sure that we play our part in addressing the world’s problems. I know we will do it in cooperation with our European friends. And I say to our European friends – many of whom I’m delighted to see in this room – we are here as ever, as we have been for decades, for centuries, to support and to help as we always have done for the last hundred years or more and the reason I stress this need for full legal autonomy.

The reason we do not seek membership or part membership of the customs union or alignment of any kind, is at least partly that I want this country to be an independent actor and catalyst for free trade across the world. I was there when they negotiated the Uruguay round, I saw it completed in Geneva when they gavelled it out – and it was one of those events that people hardly reported, but it was a fantastically important event in the life of the world.

It was a critical moment in my view that helped to lead to almost two decades of global growth and confidence. And then in 2008 we saw the abject failure of the Doha round and though there were many culprits there can be no doubt that both the EU and the US bear a heavy share of the blame for their refusal to compromise on farm subsidies.

Of course while we were in, the voice of the UK was muffled. And as we come out I don’t wish to exaggerate our influence or our potential influence. But then nor would I minimise the eagerness of our friends around the world to hear once again our independent voice in free trade negotiations and our objective is to get things started again not just because it is right for the world, but because of course it is right for Britain because this people’s government believes that the whole country will benefit. Because it will help our national programme to unite and level up and bring together our whole United Kingdom. And by expanding our trading relationships to improve the productivity of the entire nation by expanding infrastructure, education and technology.

You know that our programme is to bring this country together. Combine that with greater free trade, and of course I hope you will see us exporting more fantastic ships built on the Clyde More, wonderful bone china pottery from Northern Ireland, beef from Wales. The opportunities as I say are extraordinary. It is an incredible fact that we still sell not one hamburger’s worth of beef to the US, not one kebab’s worth of lamb, and as I speak the people of the US are still surviving without an ounce of Scottish haggis which they continue to ban Mr Ambassador. In fact I don’t know how they manage Burns Night.

I am glad to say that the Chinese last year signed the first agreement to take British beef after a 20-year ban, but still no lamb, not a joint, not a chop, not a deep frozen moussaka, even though we have the best lamb in the world. And don’t tell me the issue is distance from China. Let me ask you a question, see if you’ve been paying attention to this speech – the New Zealanders sell huge and growing quantities of lamb to China, as indeed they do to America. Let me ask you which is closer to Beijing: Wales or New Zealand? Does anybody know? Wales of course is the correct answer.

There is no reason why we cannot do much, much better and I am deeply proud of this – I don’t want to do down this country’s global exporting spirit. We do extraordinary things as I never tire of telling you: tea to China, cake to France, TV aerials to South Korea and so on. Boomerangs to Australia, Nigel Farage to America. Then he came back of course.

But this is the moment for us to think of our past and go up a gear again to recapture the spirit of those seafaring ancestors immortalised above us whose exploits brought not just riches but something even more important than that – and that was a global perspective. That is our ambition. There lies the port, the vessel puffs her sail… the wind sits in the mast.

We are embarked now on a great voyage, a project that no one thought in the international community that this country would have the guts to undertake, but if we are brave and if we truly commit to the logic of our mission – open, outward-looking, generous, welcoming, engaged with the world championing global free trade – now when global free trade needs a global champion, I believe we can make a huge success of this venture, for Britain, for our European friends, and for the world."

[Retsdon]

Haha! I was also going to post a link to it this morning  but decided that it would be too provocative. But now you've done it - what do you make of the Clark Kent gag?  Or shipbuilding in the Clyde? Marvellous stuff!

Except  that back in the real world....

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Except  that back in the real world....

Speaking of which , probably one of your favourite 'experts' ?

The delusions continue..

From Facebook.

'With the stunning dexterity of the seasoned pro, Professor Thom Brooks slips his marker, dribbles the ball past three defenders, and spotting the keeper off his line, unleashes the ball with a deft swing of his foot.
Into his own net.
Yes, self proclaimed “Brexit expert” Thom, gets it wrong again, despite his claims that the “world” recognises him as an “expert”. And he doesn’t just mean any old world. He means the tiny, dwindling band of doomongers and self loathing Britain haters who lap up his drivel in the Guardian.
And Thom uses the word “expert” quite a lot to describe himself. A quick browse through his Guardian articles confirms his unfounded belief in his own abilities. Abilities which seem to amount to constantly being wrong.
It would be interesting to know what his students call him. Because I doubt it’s “expert”. Possibly “deluded” or “comical” I would guess. It’s disturbing to think what utter guff he must be attempting to indoctrinate students with, but it’s what we’ve come to expect from our education system. Those who can, do. Those who can’t, teach. It appears that Tony Blair’s destruction of our higher education system is complete.
You’d like to think that Thom will now be hiding under a rock somewhere after calling it out so publicly and spectacularly wrong, but I doubt it. Stupidity is shameless.'

"I'm the Brexit expert who predicted it wouldn't happen. Now I'm certain I was right"  😂

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/general-election-brexit-boris-johnson-eu-extension-no-deal-a9175851.html

[Retsdon]

Never heard of the bloke before. Anyway, what's  your point?  Last time I looked Britain was still effectively in the EU until the end of the year. Consequently nobody's day to day experience has changed one iota. The only difference is that Britain no longer has any say in EU matters. A red herring.

What about Clarke Kent and restoring shipbuilding on the Clyde? Feasible?

Let me put in another way. Are you asserting that Boris's plan to break completely from the Single Market and pursue a 'Canada' type relationship - which agrees to increasingly aligned standards and mutual oversight of same btw- will NOT do harm to the British economy? Yes it no?

Edited February 4, 2020 by Retsdon

[TIGHTCHOKE]

It is all part of the process, definitely worth waiting for the completion!

[udderlyoffroad]

29 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Let me put in another way. Are you asserting that Boris's plan to break completely from the Single Market and pursue a 'Canada' type relationship - which agrees to increasingly aligned standards and mutual oversight of same btw- will NOT do harm to the British economy? Yes it or no?

It depends on the details, as you well know.

To Tightchoke's point, short-term pain for long-term gain, seems to me the British Public were well aware of that concept when they repeatedly voted for Brexit and Brexit-supporting parties.

Finally, 'standards' in this context is the wrong word.  Regulatory alignment in the form of the UK continuing to implement European Directives into UK law won't be happening, according to No 10.

Now, that doesn't mean that UK-made products and services sold in the EU won't have to meet these directives, they will.  But US, Canadian, Chinese etc manufacturers are all capable of doing this without have to be in regulatory alignment.

For manufactured goods at least, a lot of these directives themselves require you to make a product in accordance with a Standard.  These standards are set by committees, and most of these committees aren't actually anything to do with the EU!  E.g. British Standards, ISO, IEC....We won't be losing our seats on these committees just because we're leaving the EU.

I'm currently working in Germany, and let me tell you, regulatory compliance with EU directives is far more slack here than it is the UK.  You would just never be able to get away with the slow, laissez-faire implementation of EU rules back in Blighty that I've seen here. 

This is I believe part of the problem of our relationship with the EU.  The British, following the rules, implement EU requirements to the letter, and gold-plate them.  Everywhere else in the EU...not so much.  Even the word 'directive' is translated into German as 'Richtlinie', literally translated: guideline!

[Rewulf]

55 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

What about Clarke Kent and restoring shipbuilding on the Clyde? Feasible

Of course shipbuilding on the Clyde is feasible, if we can contemplate sinking 100 billion plus into a rail link that shaves 20 mins off a journey, why would we not invest heavily in a much needed industry, that will hugely benefit not just clydebank, but other traditional ship building areas? 

The Clark Kent thing seems to offend you in some way, can this country not step up and champion true free global trade? 

You sound like you would rather see your country sink, than prosper. 

Is this the level of your bitterness? 

[oowee]

7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Of course shipbuilding on the Clyde is feasible, if we can contemplate sinking 100 billion plus into a rail link that shaves 20 mins off a journey, why would we not invest heavily in a much needed industry, that will hugely benefit not just clydebank, but other traditional ship building areas? 

The Clark Kent thing seems to offend you in some way, can this country not step up and champion true free global trade? 

You sound like you would rather see your country sink, than prosper. 

Is this the level of your bitterness? 

We do not want true free global trade it's too expensive. 

[Rewulf]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

We do not want true free global trade it's too expensive. 

That depends if you are a producer or a consumer does it not? 

We as a country are based more around consumption, rightly or wrongly. 

We are talking about changing this dynamic, by making the UK less reliant on services, we need to MAKE more stuff, rather than buying in, it creates jobs, skills and general contentment, when the time comes to start exporting these new products, then free trade will help. 

THIS is BJ s message, it will take time, and quite likely some short term pain, but it's absolutely got to be done, we cannot continue the way we are, with people learning nothing but how to work telephones and *** systems that sell goods made abroad. 

Recreating a manufacturing base, will create jobs, wealth, and a stable economy, we can be an example, as we have been before, we just lost our way. 

Apparently you cannot abbreviate point of sale, 🙄

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Constant moaning by the last few Remoaners who just can't accept we are on the road and picking up speed.

 

 

No cliffs, no World War Three, no massive breakdown of our lifestyle, in fact the economy is bubbling along quite well!

 

 

Life is really quite simply okay at the moment with wonderful prospects!

[Gordon R]

I appreciate that Boris is hardly likely to have written that speech, alone. Nonetheless, it is stirring stuff in an age filled with bland Tories or left wing loonies.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Life is really quite simply okay at the moment with wonderful prospects!

Exactly! 

We are perfectly capable of standing on our own two feet and PROSPERING! 

All this idiotic talk of being 'left behind' or losing standing, is just doom mongering, for the purposes of which we can only wonder. 

Is it a coincidence that all of these talking heads who say Brexit is a disaster, despite all evidence to the contrary, are the same people who are last in the queue to give any praise to our national abilities and achievements? 

6 minutes ago, Gordon R said:

I appreciate that Boris is hardly likely to have written that speech, alone. Nonetheless, it is stirring stuff in an age filled with bland Tories or left wing loonies.

I don't know, maybe, Boris can deliver a very good speech  even ad lib, as is evident during PMQs. 

He's a far more intelligent person than most give credit for, as most look at the face, and imagine a fool. 

He is far from that. 

[oowee]

39 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

That depends if you are a producer or a consumer does it not? 

We as a country are based more around consumption, rightly or wrongly. 

We are talking about changing this dynamic, by making the UK less reliant on services, we need to MAKE more stuff, rather than buying in, it creates jobs, skills and general contentment, when the time comes to start exporting these new products, then free trade will help. 

THIS is BJ s message, it will take time, and quite likely some short term pain, but it's absolutely got to be done, we cannot continue the way we are, with people learning nothing but how to work telephones and *** systems that sell goods made abroad. 

Recreating a manufacturing base, will create jobs, wealth, and a stable economy, we can be an example, as we have been before, we just lost our way. 

Apparently you cannot abbreviate point of sale, 🙄

I was thinking it's more about if you are an employer or an employee. 

We as a country have an ecnomy based on services as that is where the added value is to support the lifestyle we have. 

Manufacturing in it's traditional sense is largely too low value for the UK. We need to be looking at higher added value production rather than traditional. Traditional manufacturing (using brian not brain) , particularly exposed to open competition in a free trade arrangement, will not pay £10 an hour. 

Value added is where it's at, or we increase productivity (more hours less pay lower standards). 

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

All this idiotic talk of being 'left behind'

If you stand there wringing your hands and crying "woe, woe and thrice woe" like Senna the soothsayer (Up Pompei) - then you will be left behind.

What is KEY is that what Boris Johnson's government team actually follows through on what he has said in the speech.  That needs a team that will be dynamic and will have to kick some rear ends.  I suspect his team will not rise to the challenge.

[discobob]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

I'm currently working in Germany, and let me tell you, regulatory compliance with EU directives is far more slack here than it is the UK.  You would just never be able to get away with the slow, laissez-faire implementation of EU rules back in Blighty that I've seen here. 

This is I believe part of the problem of our relationship with the EU.  The British, following the rules, implement EU requirements to the letter, and gold-plate them.  Everywhere else in the EU...not so much.  Even the word 'directive' is translated into German as 'Richtlinie', literally translated: guideline!

I worked in Munich for 6 months in 2008 (or 9) - back then I was a smoker - I could walk off the plane going and have a cigarette in a cubicle less than 10 yards from the entry in the main terminal. I could go to bars where smoking was allowed - they just had a sign up at the door to inform that they allowed smoking.

However in this country it was stringent implementation of no smoking - which caused a lot of pubs to go out of business (amongst other things before somebody jumps on me) and I am just using this as a particular example - I haven't smoked for 5 years now  

[Rewulf]

43 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

We as a country have an ecnomy based on services as that is where the added value is to support the lifestyle we have. 

The problem with that type of economy , is that its very easy to have the rug pulled out from under you, crashing your finances, and leaving you with nothing to fall back on.
A country should be able to support itself, and feed itself, we have been left fairly vulnerable by reliance on the EU project.
'You dont have to produce your own wheat, coal ect, we can supply it to you from one of our newer members'
Before you know whats happening, the prices go up, and you are no longer in a position to bargain.

Reliance on our service and financial institutions has to stop, as much as they bring the dosh in, they are all too easily bought down.

Manufacturing in it's traditional sense is largely too low value for the UK. We need to be looking at higher added value production rather than traditional. Traditional manufacturing (using brian not brain) , particularly exposed to open competition in a free trade arrangement, will not pay £10 an hour. 

This is true, but its important to have a workforce with practical skills.
Some who maybe struggle with academia , can still contribute with practical knowledge, this helps with all kinds of societal issues.
Would you rather see a person learning something, and not making a large salary, or someone doing nothing and costing the state ?

From this position its possible to  gain that higher value production through training, once they are on the ladder.
 

Value added is where it's at, or we increase productivity (more hours less pay lower standards). 

The way forward is higher tech, higher skills, more value.
But we are competing on the world stage with other countries who WILL work harder, cheaper, and in many cases produce a better product.
As above , its better to make SOMETHING with less profit , than make NOTHING, and still pay the person for doing nothing.

Keep the service industries for as long as possible, but create manufacturing opportunities too.
That way you can keep unemployment down , feral kids off the streets, and bring some self esteem back into peoples lives who would otherwise see a life of crime, or knocking kids out as their employment prospects.

[Retsdon]

Brexit became a religion some time ago. Now, it's impossible for anyone to have a rational evidence-based discussion about outcomes because the argument will be hijacked to Faith. If you believe strongly enough everything will be wonderful! No evidence or logic needed. Just believe! It's like talking to Mormons or Born Again Christians. There's no headway to be made really.

But we'll try one more time. Will dropping out of the Single Market, (JIT supply lines, passporting rights, no NTBs into Europe, etc, etc,) do economic harm to the country?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Rewulf]

2 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Brexit became a religion some time ago.

No it didnt !😃
The 'love' shown toward the EU (even though no one seemed to 'love' it before) is far more cultish than leaving !

 

4 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Now, it's impossible for anyone to have a rational evidence-based discussion about outcomes because the argument will be hijacked to Faith.

Youre asking for someone to tell you whether or not Brexits going to hurt, but youve not been listening , because most leavers say they accept it will.
But then you say we cant discuss it, because we are all obsessed with the 'faith' 😂

 

8 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

But we'll try one more time. Will dropping out of the Single Market, (JIT supply lines, passporting rights, no NTBs into Europe, etc, etc,) do economic harm to the country?

Yes ...maybe, a little, in the short term, we knew this when we voted, we knew this on Dec 12, we ACCEPT the possibility of it, its worth it.

YOU are the one obsessing over the 'harm' even though it doesnt affect you half as much as us.
So tell me , why is your 'faith' so weak ?

[Gordon R]

Quote

 

But we'll try one more time. Will dropping out of the Single Market, (JIT supply lines, passporting rights, no NTBs into Europe, etc, etc,) do economic harm to the country?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

 

No. If you disagree, prove it to me using only yes or no.

[Danger-Mouse]

19 hours ago, ditchman said:

"god im depressed"

 

 

"brain the size of a planet.........and i have to listen to this.........................."    "a man needs to know where his towel is"

It's ok Ditchy,

[Rewulf]

Oh my god no, NOOOOO !

ABORT , ABORT , REMAIN ,Please !😂

[ditchman]

1 hour ago, Mr_Nobody said:

It's ok Ditchy,

well spotted.....................guide to the galaxy

[Yellow Bear]

1 hour ago, Mr_Nobody said:

It's ok Ditchy,

Close but no cigar  -  Should be PINK

[Newbie to this]

2 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Oh my god no, NOOOOO !

ABORT , ABORT , REMAIN ,Please !😂

Damn, I was going to have Cod and Chips for dinner tonight.

Oh well, Indian it is, or has leaving the EU put a stop to that as well 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Newbie to this

[Walker570]

One good thing I read today is that Nissan are seriously considering upping their sales in the UK and dropping the rest of Europe.  It just needs the IMAGE types to buy Nissan instead of BMW or Mercs.  That may just gel minds over in Germany for a start.

I once was called into my Chief Supers office and given a seriously tricky job to do. He told me in no uncertain terms that negative attitude and can't do attitude would not be accepted. The job got done.    It does worry me that we have so many negative people in the country.  Mrs Thatcher was bombarded with negative attitudes towards sorting the Argy problem but she stuck her neck out and our boys got the job done although all the so called experts said it couldn't be done and we should go belly up to the invaders.   I sense that attitude from many remainer types, even some I class as friends AND are still friends. We just beg to differ.