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JohnfromUK
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Personally I am not in a position to comment for or against as I am not in full possession of facts. I don’t trust politicians! It’s that simple. Through the 70s 80s naughties and now they have ALWAYS lied to get into power, be it spin or plain old whoppers. But that aside, the vote was cast that the UK was to leave the EU. 

 

In my view we need to stop acting like spoiled children on both sides, and remember we have to work with that guy next to you, you probably drink next to him in the pub, your child is possibly being taught by him, or he could be the surgeon saving your life. 

 

Personally I would like to see us leave with nothing! Then after a period of collecting ourselves, see what deals are available not only with the rest of the world, but with Europe too. 

 

As Teal has said, a fresh start to the thread, why not to our negotiations with the EU?

 

 

Edited by Lord Geordie
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1 hour ago, Teal said:

The point is that there has been far worse on the topic. It has been removed from view. Speaking from a lot of experience on the Brexit topic, it always follows a familiar pattern, when insults start to be thrown, and it escalates. If we turn a blind eye, then others see it as being acceptable, and the insults get worse. It no longer becomes an interesting place of commentary, but slides into unpleasantness.

It is pretty simple, we have a no insults policy. Then we don't have to decide on where exactly the line is crossed. I'd like to think people can respect that, at the umpteenth time of asking!

Anyway clean slate, back to Brexit. Let's see what happens.

Fair enough……. although I'm having a pound on handbags at ten paces🤪  

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37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

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A part of me hopes that Liz tells BoJo to do one but the reality appears to be that the only way out of this mess is through one undemocratic means or the other - if the means serves your agenda then it might still be prudent to acknowledge what an absolute shambles and mockery it makes of our once great union. It's going to be very difficult to ever regain our international standing after this debacle.

You do know HM is a staunch Brexiteer  , dont you ?
I heard she was a fully paid up (secret) member of the Brexit party 😂

Seriously though, although there is 'outrage' at the 'undemocratic' means that Boris has employed, these unusual times call for unusual measures, and the loudest voices this morning are coming from those that have behaved in , by far , the most undemocratic way.

Ive just been listening to soubry on local radio, screeching about how Boris doesnt have a mandate to do this.

Does she have a mandate to oppose Brexit, against the wishes of her constituency ?

Hypocrite.

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24 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

You do know HM is a staunch Brexiteer  , dont you ?
I heard she was a fully paid up (secret) member of the Brexit party 😂

Indeed, obvious from here choice of outfit in the pic.

Seriously though, although there is 'outrage' at the 'undemocratic' means that Boris has employed, these unusual times call for unusual measures, and the loudest voices this morning are coming from those that have behaved in , by far , the most undemocratic way.

Ive just been listening to soubry on local radio, screeching about how Boris doesnt have a mandate to do this.

Does she have a mandate to oppose Brexit, against the wishes of her constituency ?

Hypocrite.

I don't think there's anything to be gained from going over the Soubry gig again - I fully understand how she has infuriated Brexiteers but maintain none of that justifies the abuse and threats she has been subjected to. And I believe someone is doing a five year stretch as a result of such threats.

 

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It must be plain to everyone by now that Europe won't give a deal that doesn't involve the Irish backdoor. Even then, what deal would it be? In the eyes of Europe, we can't be seen to be better off out of the E.U.- that would be a disaster for Brussels. I think if Boris agreed to the irish backstop they would come up with something else that he couldn't agree to just to make sure we don't get a deal. Time for talking is done.  

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9 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

don't think there's anything to be gained from going over the Soubry gig again - I fully understand how she has infuriated Brexiteers but maintain none of that justifies the abuse and threats she has been subjected to. And I believe someone is doing a five year stretch as a result of such threats

That's the thing, She's the one being vocal about it, she's the one who won't let it rest. 

She does not have the support of her constituency in this, and fully accepts her parliamentary career is over come next election. 

For the record, no one is doing a 5 stretch for threatening her, a man got 8 weeks for death threats against her last year, and Goddard who called her a nazi, got a suspended sentence. 

1 minute ago, stu64 said:

It must be plain to everyone by now that Europe won't give a deal that doesn't involve the Irish backdoor. Even then, what deal would it be? In the eyes of Europe, we can't be seen to be better off out of the E.U.- that would be a disaster for Brussels. I think if Boris agreed to the irish backstop they would come up with something else that he couldn't agree to just to make sure we don't get a deal. Time for talking is done.  

Exactly. 

The situation is a direct result of Brussels strategy, with the help of UK remainder mps. 

They expected us to give in, we didn't. 

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1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

I don't agree at all.  If we had a referendum ........ and our leaders totally fail to carry out it's result - that would be true, but if we now get on and clearly leave we will be seen to be standing up for ourselves and siezing back the control that was promised.

Well said. Agree 100%:friends:

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Parliament voted against the deal three times, let us not forget that fact. Now a bunch of political misfits think that if they can band together in sufficient numbers they can bring down parliament.

Maybe they can - who knows? But if they succeed what are we all going to wake up to the following morning? Anarchy that's what, its not going to just go away like a bad dream

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9 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

For the record, no one is doing a 5 stretch for threatening her, a man got 8 weeks for death threats against her last year, and Goddard who called her a nazi, got a suspended sentence. 

I was referring to Jack Renshaw, sorry I should have used similar instead of such (threats) - I think Renshaw was actually sentenced to life.

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Interesting times ahead. If the remainers within parliament do prevent the suspension then Boris has few options. Having set the table nicely he will most likely call an election. 

The remainers within his party would probably be de-selected and farage would run against labour/libs elsewhere.

This could lead to a smattering of labour from the south east and a conservative/brexit majority with a bit of snp knocking about to cherp about independence on slow news days. 

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9 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Having set the table nicely he will most likely call an election.

Boris can't simply do that.  He needs a 2/3 majority (I think) under the fixed term Parliament Act.  If it looked like he might win (which if Farage plays ball is highly likely) - then Labour and SNP might not vote for an election ........ in which case I don't quite know what happens.  I guess he has to get one of his own side to call a vote of no confidence - and loose it - then prevent anyone else being able to form a government within 14 days - at which time he gets an election.  But he has to EITHER loose a vote of no confidence AND no one else be able to get confidence - OR get a 2/3 majority to disolve Parliament and call an election.

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7 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

And the remainers have predictably put a legal challenge in.

The Courts CANNOT challenge the Queen (in her capacity as Sovereign) - as they are upholding her law as she is Head of State and Head of the Judiciary.  They can only challenge the advice given to the queen.

Incidentally, calling for the abolition of the Monarchy (as some might think to do) in print is still technically illegal - sentence life imprisonment under the Treason Felony Act of 1848.

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11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Boris can't simply do that.  He needs a 2/3 majority (I think) under the fixed term Parliament Act.  If it looked like he might win (which if Farage plays ball is highly likely) - then Labour and SNP might not vote for an election ........ in which case I don't quite know what happens.  I guess he has to get one of his own side to call a vote of no confidence - and loose it - then prevent anyone else being able to form a government within 14 days - at which time he gets an election.  But he has to EITHER loose a vote of no confidence AND no one else be able to get confidence - OR get a 2/3 majority to disolve Parliament and call an election.

Labour has been calling for an election for the last 3 years, I strongly doubt they would back out now. 

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5 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Labour has been calling for an election for the last 3 years, I strongly doubt they would back out now. 

Labour backed leaving the EU at the last election.  Labour has now decided to campaign for remain in a 'peoples vote' which they propose.

Labour promised a vote of no confidence as soon as Johnson was elected - but didn't as they know they would probably loose a resultant election

Labour cannot be trusted to do anything they say.  They will not trigger an election unless they are pretty certain they can win.  Corbyn's lefty masters (Momentum and Union bosses) know that they would likely loose votes and control of the party if they keep loosing elections.  They have to be confident of a win if they trigger an election.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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1 minute ago, JohnfromUK said:

Labour backed leaving the EU at the last election.  Labour has now decided to campaign for remain in a 'peoples vote' which they propose.

Labour promised a vote of no confidence as soon as Johnson was elected - but didn't as they know they would probably loose a resultant election

Labour cannot be trusted to do anything they say.  They will not trigger an election unless they are pretty certain they can win.  Corbyn's lefty masters (Momentum and Union bosses) know that they would likely loose votes and control of the party if they keep loosing elections.  They have to be confident of a win if they trigger an election.

I don't disagree with anything you've said however if bojo called for one they would find it harder to back out than of hitting a 90 yard driven pheasant in the dark with an airgun with their eyes closed. 

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Just now, GingerCat said:

I don't disagree with anything you've said however if bojo called for one they would find it harder to back out than of hitting a 90 yard driven pheasant in the dark with an airgun with their eyes closed. 

I like the analogy, but Corbyn could (and would) back out of anything and still claim he has 'the moral high ground'

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