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19 minutes ago, oowee said:

We can leave easily. 

Reality see previous post. Immigration higher than now. Costs higher than the saving of membership fees. International trade as it is now or less. 

No. The majority voted to leave for a host of reasons. None of those reasons will be achieved through leaving. 

Leaving is an illusion. 

Exactly and we can’t leave as is in a manner which verifiably meets the intent of everyone who voted leave. Anyone claiming that the 17.4M leave votes all intended leave at all costs with no deal is probably no more a Democrat than anyone unconditionally advocating complete revocation of A50.

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7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Exactly and we can’t leave as is in a manner which verifiably meets the intent of everyone who voted leave. Anyone claiming that the 17.4M leave votes all intended leave at all costs with no deal is probably no more a Democrat than anyone unconditionally advocating complete revocation of A50.

Give it a rest  ***, you and Grant live in a parallel universe.

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1 minute ago, JRDS said:

Give it a rest  ***, you and Grant live in a parallel universe.

Just because you don’t like it, it doesn’t make the point any less valid or at the very least worthy of debate.

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1 hour ago, Scully said:

It may change in the future, but currently is what it is. The referendum was held under the system we currently have, and I’m assuming you were happy enough to participate? Do you believe the result should be honoured? 

I'd like to suggest that whilst elections are clearly to do with represents us in parliament, a referendum that was put to the people wasn't voting for a member of parliament.

It was a choice given to the public so I don't see how the parliamentary democracy system comes into the referendum.

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Quote

Just because you don’t like it, it doesn’t make the point any less valid or at the very least worthy of debate.

Yes it does. You rarely make a valid point or one worthy of even a junior debate.

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1 hour ago, Dave-G said:

I'd like to suggest that whilst elections are clearly to do with represents us in parliament, a referendum that was put to the people wasn't voting for a member of parliament.

It was a choice given to the public so I don't see how the parliamentary democracy system comes into the referendum.

But certain Brexiteers constantly liken what has happened over Brexit to ignoring the result of a GE, although I’ve not seen anyone explain how that could actually happen.

Not that reality appears to be a priority to certain Brexiteers.

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36 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But certain Brexiteers constantly liken what has happened over Brexit to ignoring the result of a GE, although I’ve not seen anyone explain how that could actually happen.

Not that reality appears to be a priority to certain Brexiteers.

You're correct, it wouldn't happen. Because Parliament accepts the rules of a general election. It's a competition between the parties and they all more or less follow the rules and accept the result.

Unlike Brexit where because the referendum was not legally binding (although the result was promised to be implemented), and was not a competition between parties, large sections of Parliament seem to think they can ignore promises they previously made.

You want reality? Well there it is.

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40 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

But certain Brexiteers constantly liken what has happened over Brexit to ignoring the result of a GE, although I’ve not seen anyone explain how that could actually happen.

Not that reality appears to be a priority to certain Brexiteers.

No what folk have said is what if say Labour win the next election and we just say no were not happy with the result?

we were given a vote stay in the EU or leave, that simple, the majority voted leave.

KB1 asked should we honour the  democratic referendum result, you haven't answered this, but then neither have any other remainers. 

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I will

Yes

I’ve said it many many moons ago, when once again the very same question was posed.

 

 

Edited by Jaymo
Didn’t like the layout :-)

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11 hours ago, oowee said:

The referendum was illustrated in black and white with an answer that dealt in  shades of grey that need to be interpreted. 

 

Nonsense  in or out end of, the details get worked out later!

11 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Yes I would support PR, but still wish to see the referendum result honoured!

Spot on. 

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39 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

In a perverse way, I'm kind of looking forward to November. Who knows, maybe this song will be back in the charts again.

https://youtu.be/_-5fDg-VUxQ

 

 

"First I was afraid, I was petrified... Thinking how I could ever live without you by my side...." 

I prefer that one. 

 

11 hours ago, oowee said:

We can leave easily. 

Reality see previous post. Immigration higher than now. Costs higher than the saving of membership fees. International trade as it is now or less. 

No. The majority voted to leave for a host of reasons. None of those reasons will be achieved through leaving. 

Leaving is an illusion. 

You forgot to add, in YOUR opinion. 

None of these are FACTS. 

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8 hours ago, Mice! said:

we were given a vote stay in the EU or leave, that simple, the majority voted leave.

KB1 asked should we honour the  democratic referendum result, you haven't answered this, but then neither have any other remainers. 

And then left it to parliament to thrash out the details whom are thus far unable to agree on an acceptable manner in which to honour the result of the vote. Equally as simple really.

KB1 framed the question against anyone who is not comfortable with no deal. I am unable to answer either yes or no without qualification so abstained from answering.

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17 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

And then left it to parliament to thrash out the details whom are thus far unable to agree on an acceptable manner in which to honour the result of the vote. Equally as simple really.

KB1 framed the question against anyone who is not comfortable with no deal. I am unable to answer either yes or no without qualification so abstained from answering.

So because they can't agree, we just ignore the result of the vote and stay in? 

Are you OK with that? 

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There wasn't an in between option presented - in or out were the only two options, now seemingly over simplified by politicians who blatantly think of their personal preferences before honouring the result.

Edited by Dave-G
dyslexic attack

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11 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

So because they can't agree, we just ignore the result of the vote and stay in? 

Are you OK with that? 

No. As much as it would suit me personally for the whole thing to be scrapped it would divide the country further and is not acceptable.

But the flip side is we should not accept leave at all costs without any further public consultation, for reasons I have stated previously.

So the reality is we probably need a further extension and try to thrash out an improved deal. Unfortunately I don’t believe BoJo or his government are capable of doing that. As you know I advocated giving him time, in this time he has nailed his true colours to the mast, the sooner he goes the better.

As a nation we have regressed even further than where we were 3 months ago. 

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3 hours ago, Jaymo said:

I will

Yes

I’ve said it many many moons ago, when once again the very same question was posed.

 

 

Good man, a straight answer.

15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No. As much as it would suit me personally for the whole thing to be scrapped it would divide the country further and is not acceptable.

But the flip side is we should not accept leave at all costs without any further public consultation, for reasons I have stated previously.

So the reality is we probably need a further extension and try to thrash out an improved deal. Unfortunately I don’t believe BoJo or his government are capable of doing that. As you know I advocated giving him time, in this time he has nailed his true colours to the mast, the sooner he goes the better.

As a nation we have regressed even further than where we were 3 months ago. 

An extension really😣😣😣 you apparently don't even think democracy counts.

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9 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Good man, a straight answer.

An extension really😣😣😣 you apparently don't even think democracy counts.

How so?

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6 minutes ago, Mice! said:

Good man, a straight answer.

An extension really😣😣😣 you apparently don't even think democracy counts.

Its precisely because democracy counts that its essential that the public vote for something tangible and measurable. This is not some made on a whim choice, this is fundamental change to the economics and potentialy structure of the UK. 

I expect our politicians to spell out precisely what we are getting into. Unfortunatley our sound bite system lacks the opportunity for constructive public debate. 

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1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said:

KB1 framed the question against anyone who is not comfortable with no deal. I am unable to answer either yes or no without qualification so abstained from answering.

He asked Yes or No, should the referendum result be honoured?

you somehow think that is worded against you as a remain voter? 

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2 minutes ago, oowee said:

Its precisely because democracy counts that its essential that the public vote for something tangible and measurable. This is not some made on a whim choice, this is fundamental change to the economics and potentialy structure of the UK. 

I expect our politicians to spell out precisely what we are getting into. Unfortunatley our sound bite system lacks the opportunity for constructive public debate. 

I thought the public did vote, the vote was in or out, stay or leave.

As for the politicians spelling out what we're getting into? I don't think there's any chance of that, they couldn't agree on if it's light or dark out, raining or sunny, they certainly don't seem to have our interests in mind.

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3 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I thought the public did vote, the vote was in or out, stay or leave.

As for the politicians spelling out what we're getting into? I don't think there's any chance of that, they couldn't agree on if it's light or dark out, raining or sunny, they certainly don't seem to have our interests in mind.

Precisely why we should demand they set out the implications  of the choice. 

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