TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Just now, Raja Clavata said: If we leave and are able to demonstrate tangible benefits of doing so then others may we’ll try. Do you think what has happened in the UK over the last 3.5 years provides a good template for others to follow. You talk about advantages but we are a ~£2 trillion economy with a net contribution to the EU of ~£12 billion. That’s analogous to a David Lloyd gym membership taking my overall household income into account. It would take a graduate from the Diane Abbott school of mathematics with an honorary degree from the Gordon Bennett school of reality to come up with a model that predicts we’re going to be better off overall.... No I think it shows it was all very poorly thought out and planned, but that has happened, we are moving along the route to LEAVE! Once we have left and all the machinations are over, we can get on with sorting out the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 For me there is still a lack of understanding of what the EU is and does. The need to align with the 'regulatory super power' that is the EU in order to effect a satisfactory trade arrangement. The implications are not understood by our politicians let alone the electorate. Another GE whilst it may clarify where the strength of electorate feeling is, after three years, it will not tackle the fundamental issues. The UK has to put the detailed work and effort into a solution. Its not a quick fix and the sound bite politics we are listening to do not help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, oowee said: For me there is still a lack of understanding of what the EU is and does. The need to align with the 'regulatory super power' that is the EU in order to effect a satisfactory trade arrangement. The implications are not understood by our politicians let alone the electorate. Another GE whilst it may clarify where the strength of electorate feeling is, after three years, it will not tackle the fundamental issues. The UK has to put the detailed work and effort into a solution. Its not a quick fix and the sound bite politics we are listening to do not help. So once again you are placing yourself within the Remainer "elite" and we thicko's that just wish to get away from the unelected 4th reich yet again fail to understand the whole "shebang"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: So once again you are placing yourself within the Remainer "elite" and we thicko's that just wish to get away from the unelected 4th reich yet again fail to understand the whole "shebang"! I dont pretend to understand it but i do recognise that 'getting away' will come at enormous cost and what we need is regulatory alignment to facilitate trade without political convergance. Thats a hard dose of reality that a large part of the public will struggle with after being sold the illusion of 'getting away'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 And MANY of the "thickies" will just be happy to get away and start again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 28 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Do you think what has happened in the UK over the last 3.5 years provides a good template for others to follow No, but what it will show them what mistakes not to make. Like trying to leave with the established parties still in control, which are mainly made up of people who wish to remain. Vote in a completely eurosceptic party and it would be a completely different story. Our problem with leaving lies with our anti-democratic remainer establishment and the many anti-democrats, that will not accept the result of the biggest democratic vote in the UK's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: No, but what it will show them what mistakes not to make. Like trying to leave with the established parties still in control, which are mainly made up of people who wish to remain. Vote in a completely eurosceptic party and it would be a completely different story. Our problem with leaving lies with our anti-democratic remainer establishment and the many anti-democrats, that will not accept the result of the biggest democratic vote in the UK's history. Why would a Eurosceptic party help. They may get out quicker and more quickly into the trade complexities that result. The road back to alignment however is likley to take longet as the political inertia to the reality of international trade is resisted for the sake of dogma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, oowee said: Why would a Eurosceptic party help. They may get out quicker and more quickly into the trade complexities that result. The road back to alignment however is likley to take longet as the political inertia to the reality of international trade is resisted for the sake of dogma. Because then their parliament would all be singing from the same hymn sheet. Without the glimmer of hope that the EU have for our anti-democratic remainer parliament to overturn the vote, the deals would come thick and fast. There is quite simply no possibility of the EU playing ball unless the political class are behind the public's decision and the threat of walking away remains. All of our problems are the anti-democratic people of our Parliament and some of the remainers (the ones who will not accept the result). If we were united we would already be out and enjoying our new found independence from the dictatorship of the EU. Anti-democrats are the problem. Edited September 22, 2019 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, oowee said: I dont pretend to understand it but i do recognise that 'getting away' will come at enormous cost and what we need is regulatory alignment to facilitate trade without political convergance. Thats a hard dose of reality that a large part of the public will struggle with after being sold the illusion of 'getting away'. I imagine a large part of the public have no idea what goes on now and couldn't care less about how trade goes on, because it simply does and always will. what the public does understand is that we don't want to be ruled by the EU, be told how many immigrants we have to let into our Island, it's those things that made people come out and vote, trade will sort itself out once we're out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaymo Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Mice! said: I imagine a large part of the public have no idea what goes on now and couldn't care less about how trade goes on, because it simply does and always will. what the public does understand is that we don't want to be ruled by the EU, be told how many immigrants we have to let into our Island, it's those things that made people come out and vote, trade will sort itself out once we're out. Possibly because as it often is “don’t know don’t care” mentality that has no conception of where products and services come from, but expect/demand them to be in place. How often do you hear “cause the Government have too” or “it’s my right” when dealing with say housing/benefits/ surgeries/ Police and Fire Service - there is an expectation that things will be in place and done so by others without a second thought as to how your Burger King or Hospital appointment came to you We take for granted far too much and assume that it’s “someone else’s problem” - to plead ignorance echoes a mid 80’s advertising campaign There is no Legal requirement for us to take ANY immigrants, it’s a voluntary exercise- same as the adoption of EU regs , you like them you adopt them!!!! Don’t blame the EU, blame the Government- it won’t change regardless of EU membership or not, haven’t people researched this ? Nope, as above, we rely on others or your latest FaceAche posting as ‘Gospel’ Trade “will sort itself out” it’s already sorted itself out- now we’re just chucking hundreds of spanner’s in the works and expecting it to grind on and not grind to a halt!!!! For the benefit of others, I don’t see or believe that one side or other is either mentally superior or retarded- views are views but base the, on facts! Edited September 22, 2019 by Jaymo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Jaymo said: How often do you hear “cause the Government have too” or “it’s my right” when dealing with say housing/benefits/ surgeries/ Police and Fire Service - there is an expectation that things will be in place and done so by others without a second thought as to how your Burger King or Hospital appointment came to you Not sure how being in or out the EU has anything to do with any of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Mice! said: Not sure how being in or out the EU has anything to do with any of that? That will simply be Remainer logic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkfanz Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 like its alleady been said biggest problem is remoaners failing to accept the vote,,,my son is a very strong leaver,he,s also a buisiness man with a turnover of around 20 million,does a lot of buisiness with germany,and isnt worried one bit he says trade will continue,no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Too many offering opinion, not on what they know, but what they’re told!........I may think I know, but I really know **** all, because no one tells the truth! They just pretend to, and lie in order to further their own agendas........I wish to leave the EU because my gut feeling is, the UK should be an independent country, rather than being used as a milk cow, and one ‘state’ within the United States of Europe! Corruption is rife throughout politics, but I choose being screwed over by our own corrupt politicians rather than both them and the EU! Better to be “a big fish in a small pond, than a small fish in a big pond” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: There is quite simply no possibility of the EU playing ball So what exactly is playing ball? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Corruption is rife throughout politics, but I choose being screwed over by our own corrupt politicians rather than both them and the EU! And we at least have the chance of bringing our politicians to task at GE, with the European lot we have no say in what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Retsdon said: So what exactly is playing ball? Negotiating rather than dictating with a take it or leave it attitude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: That’s analogous to a David Lloyd gym membership Or being held to ransom, or throwing your money down the toilet etc. analogies are wonderful things🥴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 17 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said: Negotiating rather than dictating with a take it or leave it attitude As in give us everything we want or we're going to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Just now, Retsdon said: As in give us everything we want or we're going to leave. No let us leave as you will not negotiate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Retsdon said: So what exactly is playing ball? Doing what is in the best interests of their so called 'citizens' and having a FTA with the UK (which is in both our and EU countries interests), like what was already offered but turned down by our at the time very remainer PM. But they are still hanging on to the hope that our anti-democratic parliament backed buy anti-democratic remainers (who will not accept the referendum result), can stop Brexit altogether. Which is of course how the EU's democracy works!!!! Edited September 22, 2019 by Newbie to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Retsdon said: As in give us everything we want or we're going to leave. No discuss terms that are reasonable to both sides not dictate. You know full well what I mean but like them you have your own anti democratic agenda to get something you desire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 3 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: If we leave and are able to demonstrate tangible benefits of doing so then others may we’ll try. Do you think what has happened in the UK over the last 3.5 years provides a good template for others to follow. You talk about advantages but we are a ~£2 trillion economy with a net contribution to the EU of ~£12 billion. That’s analogous to a David Lloyd gym membership taking my overall household income into account. It would take a graduate from the Diane Abbott school of mathematics with an honorary degree from the Gordon Bennett school of reality to come up with a model that predicts we’re going to be better off overall.... Well speaking as a student who failed the entrance exam for the Diane Abbott school of mathematics, you appear to be saying a contribution of ~£12 bln is justification for a trade deficit of ~£64bln. I’m not sure what Gordon Bennett has to say on the matter, but that’s not a good deal in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Gordon is watching in dis-belief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 Quote It would take a graduate from the Diane Abbott school of mathematics with an honorary degree from the Gordon Bennett school of reality to come up with a model that predicts we’re going to be better off overall.... What a cheap shot from Dumb and Dumber. 🤣 A bit of a weak one, but well down to standard, from someone who doesn't read posts. There are plenty of respected people who say we will be better off. There are others who say we won't. Bottom line is that no-one knows for certain, but some like to peddle "I am in the know" idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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