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mikky

are doctors allowed to charge for sgc renewal

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Just done my renewal, received a letter from gp saying they wanted £40 to Sign and I needed to contact them to pay. So I thought I would just leave it and see what happened, it's not a huge amount but they didn't get paid for the first letter they sent and it wouldn't have taken much longer to reply direct to police. Received cert through post this week this is with north Yorks so why should it be any different for other forces . 

Hope you get sorted Mikky

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On 10/09/2019 at 17:50, mikky said:

just spoke to my  gp to see if he had filled in the form that you download,apparently he might not be signing it off because the police have not had any discussions with gmp doctors

he doesnt see why he should declare me fit to own a gun if he only sees me once a year regarding a medical offer.

he doesnt want to put his name to anything that might get him into trouble somewhere down the line

he wont let another doctor in his medical centre sign it either

does anyone know a private gp that will sign me off when i get my medical records,i spoke to gmp firearms today and without they will not accept my renewal.

 

if i cant find one that will be 50yrs off shooting gone.

can transfer my guns to my mate and go when he goes,its not the same....so my old lanber and my beretta 682 gold will be up for grabs

 

mikky


r

 

That’s a poor attitude from your  GP, I’d move. As far as I understand he’s not being asked to predict the future, neither is he being asked to provide a full psychiatric assessment. He’s being asked if there’s anything in your notes (the police provide a list of conditions that should be notified) at a point in time that could be a risk factor which then may or may not need further exploration from your FEO. It’s pretty much a simple yes or no. 

If he can’t be a bit more open minded and stop thinking catastrophically I wouldn’t want him treating my medical problems either.

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1 hour ago, Kgreg said:

That’s a poor attitude from your  GP, I’d move. As far as I understand he’s not being asked to predict the future, neither is he being asked to provide a full psychiatric assessment. He’s being asked if there’s anything in your notes (the police provide a list of conditions that should be notified) at a point in time that could be a risk factor which then may or may not need further exploration from your FEO. It’s pretty much a simple yes or no. 

If he can’t be a bit more open minded and stop thinking catastrophically I wouldn’t want him treating my medical problems either.

Again. A GP doesn’t even have to make a yes or no decision; the decision isn’t down to a GP, but the Chief Officer for that particular licensing authority. 

A GP isn’t qualified nor required to make any judgement on an applicants mental health, only whether there is anything in an applicants medical history which may require further investigation. 

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on last renewal. i asked my doctor if he was qualified for any judgment on meical history he said yes he is,

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2 hours ago, mossy835 said:

on last renewal. i asked my doctor if he was qualified for any judgment on meical history he said yes he is,

I seriously doubt it, but nevertheless, a GP isn't being asked to make a definitive decision as that could mean they would be potentially held responsible for that applicants actions, which is something they will never accept, nor should they. 

A GP is only required to provide relevant factual notes form an applicants medical history. My medical practise have nothing more to go on than my medical history, as they've never met me. 

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Some of the charges being asked by doctors in some parts of the country are eye watering.In this month's  Sporting Gun there is an article about charges and a company called Medicert which says they will do all that is needed for 50 pounds,may be worth a look.

 

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52 minutes ago, greylag said:

Medicert which says they will do all that is needed for 50 pounds,may be worth a look.

Would be, but couldnt find them when I googled them. Anyone find the link it would be appreciated.

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Last autumn when I had my renewal my GP charged for their services which I paid as it was £20 so not the end of the world.

When my FLO came round for his visit I asked him about the medical fees and he said an alternative method that that Staffs accepted at the time was to sign up to see your medical records online and provide the details to the licensing team, this allows them to see your records warts and all but is free - its like getting a one time code to let someone see your driving license details when you hire a car

Not ideal but if you are in the position where the GP is playing hard ball then it might be the only way and as long as you are OK mentally including stress related issues it should be enough

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GP practices are private sector businesses. Trawling our medical records (not simply "signing a letter") for SGC applications isn't part of their contract with the NHS. GPs reckon they are overworked with NHS stuff anyway, so many resent being asked to do extra work, on top of their NHS burden, without any payment. That's the root of the problem. What would a lawyer charge for similar work?

Ideally, the work would be included in GPs' NHS contracts - but can you imagine the public outcry if that was the case? The antis would create havoc, pointing out that if you need a medical for, say, diving, or flying, or HGV driving, then the applicant pays; why should the public have to subsidise rich, gun-toting grouse shooters? (That's how they will put it).

Frankly, I'm not sure what the answer is - other than employing market forces and going to GPs that charge modest amounts.  

 

 

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Whilst they claim it is not in their contract, the contract will not cover each and every piece of work that they do. It is just an excuse - nothing more. If you serve them with a Subject Access Request, they are obliged to provide the very same information for free. It will not be in the form of a letter, but will give far more information. It will not bear their signature, but as they are not signing to say a patient would never do wrong, a letter isn't worth a bean.

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On 07/09/2019 at 07:50, mossy835 said:

like a mot on a car, only good from the day it was done,so you can get the all clear from the doctor one day then go and kill the next. the  ones above cant see that,

No, BUT it does allow the relevant Police Force to point the finger at the GP  ?  I believe that the "ones above " CAN see that  !

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1 hour ago, Westley said:

No, BUT it does allow the relevant Police Force to point the finger at the GP  ?  I believe that the "ones above " CAN see that  !

No, it doesn’t allow anything of the sort. The BMA has made it clear that GP’s will not be held responsible in any way. The final decision has always, and will remain so, the decision of the chief officer of police for that area. He makes the declaration that he has issued that ticket, not a GP. 

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22 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Whilst they claim it is not in their contract, the contract will not cover each and every piece of work that they do. It is just an excuse - nothing more. If you serve them with a Subject Access Request, they are obliged to provide the very same information for free. It will not be in the form of a letter, but will give far more information. It will not bear their signature, but as they are not signing to say a patient would never do wrong, a letter isn't worth a bean.

The GP contract is incredibly detailed and covers defined NHS work only. Fulfilling police requests relating to a  certificate application is not covered.  Exactly the same applies if you want a prescription for, say, anti-malaria medication for an impending holiday. Most GPs will charge for that also.

The SAR route looks attractive -  it's our data, after all. But I believe  the police can legally require a registered doctor to sign to say that they have looked through the relevant records and confirm that the proscribed conditions are not listed. That will still have to be paid for. (There might also be some question as to whether the records provide by an applicant have been edited, I suppose.)

 

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Doctors are misunderstanding the fundamental bit. The Doctor Isn't being asked if you are fit to own a gun, they are being asked if to their knowledge you are unfit to own a gun. The level of fitness is set by the Home Office as not having suffered or suffering from certain conditions.

It's a decision based on facts not opinions.

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22 hours ago, Scully said:

No, it doesn’t allow anything of the sort. The BMA has made it clear that GP’s will not be held responsible in any way. The final decision has always, and will remain so, the decision of the chief officer of police for that area. He makes the declaration that he has issued that ticket, not a GP. 

We shall see, although, I hope we do not  !

Edited by Westley

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Quote

But I believe  the police can legally require a registered doctor to sign to say that they have looked through the relevant records and confirm that the proscribed conditions are not listed.

I don't think so.

Westley - I share your view. It certainly doesn't absolve the Police, but it spreads the blame.

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On 04/09/2019 at 08:37, JTaylor91 said:

My GP just refuses to do anything with regards to firearms licensing regardless of cost. Stating they are contentious objectors to gun ownership. 

While GPs are entitled to do this (as they are on other moral issues, like abortion), they are obliged to pass you to another Doctor who would not object to the request, if that is what you want. Yes, you’ll likely get someone asking for the thick end of £200 to look over a summary of your medical history, but at least you’d get it. 

 

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Still standing Ken although Sandra is a bit more wobbly these days. Bought myself a nice Mortimer .54 cal flintlock and have been trying to frighten paper targets with it 😅

Saw this "Medcert" link on the web and thought it looked like a bloody good solution to any Harold Shipman supporter who didn't like the idea of anyone owning a firearm.

Makes one want to cry doesn't it; more people murdered by a Doctor than any legal gun owner over the past 100 years.

Edited by Graham M

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On 19/09/2019 at 23:24, Graham M said:

Check this out.

 

https://medcert.co.uk/

Clever, a nice little earner! FAC grant fee instantly up by 57%, renewal 81%, SGC grant 63 and renewal 102% at a stroke. Naturally this will reduce the police input into the process so we could expect an appropriate reduction in their fee, couldn't we? Heaven help us if we fall for this.

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