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craig1982

Jumped up game keeper

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I have several permissions basically bordering each other approx. 2500 acres. One of the permissions has a small pheasant shoot with reared birds. This has never been a problem until last year when a new young "Game Keeper" arrived. I realise that he has his job to do but you would think he was in charge of a country estate rather than a local farm shoot. Several weeks ago after combining, one field was covered in Crows. Saw the farm manager as he was ploughing the stubble, I asked about shooting the crows...No problem was the reply. Later in the week I set up a hide, shot one cartridge, minutes later "Game Keeper" arrived and abruptly told me not shoot as it would disturb his birds 1/4 mile away. Does anybody else suffer at the hands of these jobs worth's

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I've had two similar events. I suspect its more a case of his birds possibly becoming accustomed to the sound of guns and maybe failing to flight as hoped? There might be a difference in our circumstances because I was lamping bunnies at night.

 

Edited by Dave-G

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you think thats bad i just lost a farm where i had free range shooting for more than 20 odd years  geese foxes pigeons crows and roe deer the farm was sold a few years ago but i still got to carry on then it got sold 2 1/2 years ago  new owner allowed me to shoot geese pigeons, i asked him if it would be ok if i applied for my fac again for fox and deer control he said yes after me getting my fac and buying over a thousand pounds of rifles and accessories his part time keeper did not want me using my rifles on the land so the farmer said i could not use my rifles on the farm but i could still do the goose control i told him i would not as i dont like people who give permission then go back on their word, the so called gamkeeper is from that college in cupar

Edited by scarecrow243

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I could understand if you were close to his woods but a 1/4 mile is only a popping sound.

Speak to your farmer who gives you permission, see what he says. I would have a word with the keeper and let him know your doing a job same as he is for different owners.  He don't tell you when and where to shoot. 

If he wants to be a ball ache your farmer could balls his shoot days up. Hopefully you'll get a an accord with him.

He could have come to you nicely and and explained his predicament, and sked if could use a hushpower or even just subsonics to noise. Even offer to give you a slab.

Edited by figgy

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2 hours ago, scarecrow243 said:

you think thats bad i just lost a farm where i had free range shooting for more than 20 odd years  geese foxes pigeons crows and roe deer the farm was sold a few years ago but i still got to carry on then it got sold 2 1/2 years ago  new owner allowed me to shoot geese pigeons, i asked him if it would be ok if i applied for my fac again for fox and deer control he said yes after me getting my fac and buying over a thousand pounds of rifles and accessories his part time keeper did not want me using my rifles on the land so the farmer said i could not use my rifles on the farm but i could still do the goose control i told him i would not as i dont like people who give permission then go back on their word, the so called gamkeeper is from that college in cupar

I did some of my keeper training at Elmwood, I was the same on my estate, shooting was for me my team and the beaters and pickers up!

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46 minutes ago, figgy said:

I could understand if you were close to his woods but a 1/4 mile is only a popping sound.

Speak to your farmer who gives you permission, see what he says. I would have a word with the keeper and let him know your doing a job same as he is for different owners.  He don't tell you when and where to shoot. 

If he wants to be a ball ache your farmer could balls his shoot days up. Hopefully you'll get a an accord with him.

He could have come to you nicely and and explained his predicament, and sked if could use a hushpower or even just subsonics to noise. Even offer to give you a slab.

Trouble is figgy , a lot of farms around our way share there land with the neighbours to form one big block of land for game shooting so the farmer might be part of the farmers syndicate and he wouldn't want to upset the keeper for the sake of a few Crows .

A lot of land I go on is keepered and I found many years ago is not to get on the wrong side of Game Keepers as when I first looked for land to shoot on the farmers and even the land owner on the estate always referred you to the head keeper , if he said yes then that was fine , if he said no then no it was and you couldn't go. , one farm I go on we have an agreement that as soon as the young game birds go into the pens then my upland shooting comes to a close and then it is down the marsh only on there land  . this farm I have had for well over 20 years and never had a problem , come the first of February I am back to a free hand until the late Summer again .

Where I shoot now we only have about a dozen days and the keeper is happy for me to go on any land where pigeons are or can cause a problem , one advantage is the keeper also have a big say on the farm as well , so sometimes the crop is more important than the fear of scaring a few game birds .

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20 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

I did some of my keeper training at Elmwood, I was the same on my estate, shooting was for me my team and the beaters and pickers up!

it has nothing to do with pheasant shooting thats done on the other farms  he wants to sell the deer shooting and the farmer did not believe me

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Give someone that title ‘gamekeeper’ on a tinpot farm shoot even, and they can suddenly turn into the most important person on the farm. Sad but true on occasion! 

As said though, it’s better to be on the right side rather than the wrong as farmers usually take notice of what they have to say. 

 

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On most of my farms with Keepers the Farm comes first the Shoot second. 

After a shoot day the excuse is always the pigeon shooters have spooked the birds or the birds are not in the woods due to the pigeon shooters. 

Funny when you set up on the hedges on the rape the birds are all over the fields coming out of the hedges?????

I've only ever been on one formal game shoot in the company of Sir JDog ( sorry has it not been publicised yet)  and the birds were in the woods as they should be. 

I personally think that some so called Keepers think that feeding is enough not walking the land and dogging in just riding around in the little truck feeding and watering.

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On ‎12‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 07:26, craig1982 said:

I have several permissions basically bordering each other approx. 2500 acres. One of the permissions has a small pheasant shoot with reared birds. This has never been a problem until last year when a new young "Game Keeper" arrived. I realise that he has his job to do but you would think he was in charge of a country estate rather than a local farm shoot. Several weeks ago after combining, one field was covered in Crows. Saw the farm manager as he was ploughing the stubble, I asked about shooting the crows...No problem was the reply. Later in the week I set up a hide, shot one cartridge, minutes later "Game Keeper" arrived and abruptly told me not shoot as it would disturb his birds 1/4 mile away. Does anybody else suffer at the hands of these jobs worth's

I was once shooting a stubble field (full permission) and the keeper from the wood behind told me to leave "because his birds would be arriving next week and he wanted it to be quiet for them"!!

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On 12/09/2019 at 15:26, craig1982 said:

I have several permissions basically bordering each other approx. 2500 acres. One of the permissions has a small pheasant shoot with reared birds. This has never been a problem until last year when a new young "Game Keeper" arrived. I realise that he has his job to do but you would think he was in charge of a country estate rather than a local farm shoot. Several weeks ago after combining, one field was covered in Crows. Saw the farm manager as he was ploughing the stubble, I asked about shooting the crows...No problem was the reply. Later in the week I set up a hide, shot one cartridge, minutes later "Game Keeper" arrived and abruptly told me not shoot as it would disturb his birds 1/4 mile away. Does anybody else suffer at the hands of these jobs worth's

You may find that this ‘keeper’ may put in a hell of a lot of hours, pay a hell of a lot of money for the shooting rights, pay a hell of a lot of money for poults, and take a hell of a lot of money off syndicate members. 

 

And if you're not doing any of that, I see where he is coming from. 

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14 minutes ago, scutt said:

You realise he has a job to do .🙄

Hi.

The keeper or vermin shooter?

if it’s the vermin shooter, it sounds like he seen an opportunity rather than being asked. Two different things. 

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10 minutes ago, markm said:

Hi.

The keeper or vermin shooter?

if it’s the vermin shooter, it sounds like he seen an opportunity rather than being asked. Two different things. 

KEEPER 

Quoting from original post

Edited by scutt

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I have met a few of these type keepers before, nothing more than pheasant feeders most of them. In my opinion if you are shooting pigeons and pests for the farmer then the keeper should have a word with the farmer and then the farmer can talk to you. {just my opinion of course}.

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12 minutes ago, aga man said:

I have met a few of these type keepers before, nothing more than pheasant feeders most of them. In my opinion if you are shooting pigeons and pests for the farmer then the keeper should have a word with the farmer and then the farmer can talk to you. {just my opinion of course}.

Until you’ve walked in them shoes, don’t judge. There is a lot of time invested by these ‘feeders’

If you have, you wouldn’t have posted that. 

What you’ll find is most (of this type) call themselves amateur or part time gamekeeper, that’s a fact  

There are a lot more (semi) professional vermin controllers (on SGC / FAC applications) which makes me giggle.  (Fact from my police force as well as just my opinion.)

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23 minutes ago, markm said:

Until you’ve walked in them shoes, don’t judge. There is a lot of time invested by these ‘feeders’

If you have, you wouldn’t have posted that. 

What you’ll find is most (of this type) call themselves amateur or part time gamekeeper, that’s a fact  

There are a lot more (semi) professional vermin controllers (on SGC / FAC applications) which makes me giggle.  (Fact from my police force as well as just my opinion.)

My father was a keeper for many years on a very reputable estate here in east yorkshire. He was old school and killed a lot of vermin and reared many birds with good results. If the tennant farmers there asked someone to shoot pigeons id didnt bother him. The same as farmers using gas guns to protect crops.

Many small syndicate keepers nowadays look to blame anything for a poor show of birds. Much more to good keepering than just throwing feed out.

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Got moaned at one time for shooting pigeon 100 +  yards from a game pen on an adjoining farm as I was told I was disturbing the birds, it wasnt the birds that were disturbed I told him it was me , the bird's were constantly walking round my feet through my hide, under my feet, flapping about the hide and generally getting in the way making it difficult to concentrate and to shoot.

As it was pigeon shooting was almost finished so packed up a little later.

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8 hours ago, aga man said:

My father was a keeper for many years on a very reputable estate here in east yorkshire. He was old school and killed a lot of vermin and reared many birds with good results. If the tennant farmers there asked someone to shoot pigeons id didnt bother him. The same as farmers using gas guns to protect crops.

Many small syndicate keepers nowadays look to blame anything for a poor show of birds. Much more to good keepering than just throwing feed out.

You are right, but many of these ‘feeders’ also have full time jobs and other commitments and are trying to do stuff part time.

Clearly too many semi professionals and full time pros here.

No time to chat, waking the dog then going out to do what ‘feeders’ do.

 

 

19 minutes ago, deny essex said:

Got moaned at one time for shooting pigeon 100 +  yards from a game pen on an adjoining farm as I was told I was disturbing the birds, it wasnt the birds that were disturbed I told him it was me , the bird's were constantly walking round my feet through my hide, under my feet, flapping about the hide and generally getting in the way making it difficult to concentrate and to shoot.

As it was pigeon shooting was almost finished so packed up a little later.

Was the pigeon shooting almost finished because it was later on, could the birds be trying to get passed you to go home to roost by any chance. 

Edited by markm

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No ,I dont normally shot near game pens if I can see them but their pen was hidden from site by crop, vegetation and rolling landscape , these birds were coming from their pen area to me seemingly to take the pee :).

Edited by deny essex
addition

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these so called gamekeepers i have met 5 in total from from the same college seemed to be ok at first but then would stab you in the back at the first chance  so they get rid of you as your a set of eyes too see what they get up too 1 stealing pheasants from one estate too put on another, taken people pigeon shooting without estate owners permission, shooting deer and trying to blame other people for it

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I have always got-on well with most keepers and try to work with them but you do get the odd control freak, who no matter what you say, just do not want anyone else on the ground they keeper.

Just to add, shooting does not disturb reared game birds away from the pen but a vermin shooter looking for downed birds or running their dog in the wood or cover crops will, in some keepers mind is, can I trust this shooter not to-do those things even if he says he won’t? and I know one keeper that only allows his beaters and pickers to shoot vermin.

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5 hours ago, markm said:

You are right, but many of these ‘feeders’ also have full time jobs and other commitments and are trying to do stuff part time.

Clearly too many semi professionals and full time pros here.

No time to chat, waking the dog then going out to do what ‘feeders’ do.

I am a DIY or Part Time (free) Gamekeeper. I work very hard at a guess a couple of hours a day before and after work. If I was just a "feeder" I would pack it in tomorrow.

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Game Keepers as well as game shooting have changed over the last 50 years and not always for the better , when I first went beating it was only on the estates land  where you would see Pheasants , we did have a few Grey Partridges down the marsh but no long tails .

The head keeper on the estate was a man you didn't mess about with , I always remember there was a photo outside the office that was taken in the mid 1960s , at the time there were about 80 odd people employed , these were farm workers , woodmen , gardeners , estate maintenance staff , grooms , house keepers , office staff and the keepers  , and sitting in the dead centre on the front row was the head keeper with the owner sitting one side and his wife sitting the other side .

Birds were reared on the field and years later they started to buy different strains in , the hedges were kept for driven Partridges and one or two small Fir woods were planted to hold the Pheasants during the cold weather,

Now just about every farm is connected with some form of game shooting , you can now expect to put up a long tail on any rough bit of land down the marsh and even some of these small farm shoots can put on a 100 bird day .

All of these game birds needs looking after from an early age and the person who mainly do it would be called a game keeper rather than Pheasant feeders , vermin have to be controlled , pegs need putting out and a number of other jobs go on behind the scenes .

I know some of them go over board and put a spoke in your pigeon shooting , but give them a bit of space , as they are trying to do there best to put on some good days for the people who pay the money and who can only turn up on the day of the shoot .

So if you want to keep hold of your pigeon or vermin shooting DON'T upset the keeper , and it wont do any harm to offer your services if needed , it will make a difference and wont go unnoticed . 

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