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discobob
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18 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

It is if you are frantically trying to remember what name you posted under and wondering what the ever watchful Teal has found out ! :sick:

I imagine lawyers are now involved, NDA's and both parties are working to a amicable agreement! 

We may never find out the end outcome 😁😁😁

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Sounds like what I’ve got planned for the table I’ve booked for me and the wife tomorrow  🤣

12 minutes ago, Scully said:

Do you think there’s a room somewhere, where BH, Krieghoff blazerthingy and Burnley Dave are sat around a table, trying to avoid each other’s gaze, watching tumbleweed roll by? 

 

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Now I understand there was some stormy weather lately, so perhaps Krieghoffythingy had problems with his own internet connection; as we all know, Kriegohoffy-things are a MASS of shinny, powerful, metal, and they would therefore have much more issues during stormy weather, so I understand perfectly his lack of a response, as yet.

I'm sure he'll come out as soon as the weather abate. In the meantime, i've been sharpening pencils and eraser skills to practice for the next competitions!

And for full disclosure, I also think the BH videos about coaching clays are pretty much the best I've seen, and I have no 'bone' to chew with anyone. I'm just an average guy who also happen to have been in more internet arguments than most would believe, so I can see when there's 'fake news' and there's "blimey that's shockingly well documented" like the eraser-fixed scoring cards posts (unfortunately you need facebook lore to find these)

 

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I like what I’ve seen of BH’s coaching. He appears somewhat arrogant but I think you need a little of that to be a top competitor. I haven’t seen evidence to sway my opinion either way regarding any alleged tampering, but sometimes it is how you handle controversy rather than the controversy itself which is important.

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1 hour ago, discobob said:

well - I never thought that when I posted this up it would spread to 10 pages - and still going!!!!

Yup,

Never met the guy and refrained from commenting as I don't know him or shoot competitively. Therefore I can't and will not judge anyone on hearsay or media coverage.

Seen his vids, looks a competent coach.

Isn't it about time this thread was put to bed.

Leave the poor guy alone.

 

Edited by Centrepin
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Yet another post trying to shut the discussion down. Why?

It's obviously of interest to some and the man himself has been on the thread and not put a stop to the discussion by telling us the outcome or what happened, he has even asked for it not to be shut down.

The thread will run it's course, no need to shut it down.

I'm still holding out hope (all be it not much), that Ben will enlighten us all.

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49 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

Yup,

Never met the guy and refrained from commenting as I don't know him or shoot competitively. Therefore I can't and will not judge anyone on hearsay or media coverage.

Seen his vids, looks a competent coach.

Isn't it about time this thread was put to bed.

Leave the poor guy alone.

 

Why should the thread be put to bed?

You maybe don’t shoot competitively so don’t have a particular take on this, but plenty folk on PW do.

The merits of this discussion, some joshing about potential social media aliases aside, is actually intrinsic to the integrity and honesty of our sport.

I’m never going to win a world championship so if Ben did cheat it would not deny me a podium place, but how the governing bodies react to any cheating is very consequential.

If a man at the highest level of the game, through his abilities and with the stature of his profile, developed by himself, has been found to have cheated, without apparent sanction, then that suggests to others who might be tempted to do the same that the consequence isn’t so bad. That does have an impact on me and everyone else who competes honestly.

I spend thousands of pounds per year competing, it’s my hobby and i enjoy the honest competitive environment even if i don’t win, but if there is no clear sanction to discourage cheating why should I do that? 

Why bother trying to improve and measure yourself against the very best if they are not acting with honesty and integrity?

That is what is at the heart of this topic.

All we know is the DQ still stands and the appeals process was concluded, but what did it conclude?  Certainly no reinstatement so there is no innocent verdict, but equally the reason for the DQ is not published so no clear guilty verdict of cheating either. Guilty of some rules infringement though.

That ambiguity is why folk will consider the public profile, behaviour and reputation of Ben and use that as part of an opinion forming process, this community is entitled to discuss that.

That discussion, so long as it is respectful and considered, is not a witch hunt or “haters” trying to do harm, it is a perfectly legitimate discussion of concern about the integrity and reputation of our sport and those charged with maintaining that.

The man also has a right to reply and as a contributor to this thread already that right to reply is clearly established, it is in fact being encouraged.

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12 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Why should the thread be put to bed?

You maybe don’t shoot competitively so don’t have a particular take on this, but plenty folk on PW do.

The merits of this discussion, some joshing about potential social media aliases aside, is actually intrinsic to the integrity and honesty of our sport.

I’m never going to win a world championship so if Ben did cheat it would not deny me a podium place, but how the governing bodies react to any cheating is very consequential.

If a man at the highest level of the game, through his abilities and with the stature of his profile, developed by himself, has been found to have cheated, without apparent sanction, then that suggests to others who might be tempted to do the same that the consequence isn’t so bad. That does have an impact on me and everyone else who competes honestly.

I spend thousands of pounds per year competing, it’s my hobby and i enjoy the honest competitive environment even if i don’t win, but if there is no clear sanction to discourage cheating why should I do that? 

Why bother trying to improve and measure yourself against the very best if they are not acting with honesty and integrity?

That is what is at the heart of this topic.

All we know is the DQ still stands and the appeals process was concluded, but what did it conclude?  Certainly no reinstatement so there is no innocent verdict, but equally the reason for the DQ is not published so no clear guilty verdict of cheating either. Guilty of some rules infringement though.

That ambiguity is why folk will consider the public profile, behaviour and reputation of Ben and use that as part of an opinion forming process, this community is entitled to discuss that.

That discussion, so long as it is respectful and considered, is not a witch hunt or “haters” trying to do harm, it is a perfectly legitimate discussion of concern about the integrity and reputation of our sport and those charged with maintaining that.

The man also has a right to reply and as a contributor to this thread already that right to reply is clearly established, it is in fact being encouraged.

Well Explained and totally agree! 👏👏👏

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14 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Why should the thread be put to bed?

You maybe don’t shoot competitively so don’t have a particular take on this, but plenty folk on PW do.

The merits of this discussion, some joshing about potential social media aliases aside, is actually intrinsic to the integrity and honesty of our sport.

I’m never going to win a world championship so if Ben did cheat it would not deny me a podium place, but how the governing bodies react to any cheating is very consequential.

If a man at the highest level of the game, through his abilities and with the stature of his profile, developed by himself, has been found to have cheated, without apparent sanction, then that suggests to others who might be tempted to do the same that the consequence isn’t so bad. That does have an impact on me and everyone else who competes honestly.

I spend thousands of pounds per year competing, it’s my hobby and i enjoy the honest competitive environment even if i don’t win, but if there is no clear sanction to discourage cheating why should I do that? 

Why bother trying to improve and measure yourself against the very best if they are not acting with honesty and integrity?

That is what is at the heart of this topic.

All we know is the DQ still stands and the appeals process was concluded, but what did it conclude?  Certainly no reinstatement so there is no innocent verdict, but equally the reason for the DQ is not published so no clear guilty verdict of cheating either. Guilty of some rules infringement though.

That ambiguity is why folk will consider the public profile, behaviour and reputation of Ben and use that as part of an opinion forming process, this community is entitled to discuss that.

That discussion, so long as it is respectful and considered, is not a witch hunt or “haters” trying to do harm, it is a perfectly legitimate discussion of concern about the integrity and reputation of our sport and those charged with maintaining that.

The man also has a right to reply and as a contributor to this thread already that right to reply is clearly established, it is in fact being encouraged.

Very well said :good:

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22 hours ago, Centrepin said:

Yup,

Never met the guy and refrained from commenting as I don't know him or shoot competitively. Therefore I can't and will not judge anyone on hearsay or media coverage.

Seen his vids, looks a competent coach.

Isn't it about time this thread was put to bed.

Leave the poor guy alone.

 

What an odd interjection, leave the guy alone ? In case you hadn’t noticed he himself is participating in the thread and his fanboys are calling people with opposing views bitter and twisted ! There also appears to be some doubt about a certain claim made by said fanboy which has since gone awol, throw in the aforementioned social media caption which many believe goes beyond reasonable and which resulted in a few (presumably certificate holders) informing all and sundry that people with whom one disagrees are automatically trolls and numpties and fair game for a punch in the mouth !! 

You want this shut down despite all that ?

Edited by Hamster
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It is just a shame that Krieghoffoverblaser can't bring himself/ herself to post a full explanation. He joins and almost immediately pops up with some grammatically poor posts, containing little logic and a degree of abuse, which has been edited out. When the going gets rough, the not so tough get going.

PS - grrclark - yet another astute post.

 

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Gentlemen, I stand aside.

It appeared to be going round in circles and nothing achieved.

You of course have the right to free speech. So do I, and I think it's gone on long enough. 

I've said my piece, my only contribution to this thread, and as I know none of the parties involved, will now step back and take no further part.

Hindsight being a wonderful thing, I should have posted nothing.

🙉🙈🙊

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Personally I think he's been stripped of nsca membership! Reading the nsca rulebook and governance, under eligibility...........You need to be paid up member and be in good standing to shoot nsca reg shoots, tournaments and comps. If the Northbrook letter is to be believed?......it details what they found and rules breached. Will Fennel on facebook says he's "no longer" on the nsca database. If the picture attached is to be believed............No history for past 5yrs! So has he been scrubbed?? 

 

Will it stop him shooting in the states?............No! Unless he tries to attend a comp or tournament controlled by the nsca.

How long for? Who knows! 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ But time will tell whether you see Ben stateside and shooting nsca events or whether he spends more time in Ireland and Europe?

 

That is only my opinion and reading between the lines👍👍👍

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