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ladyjack

Sub 12 or fa

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Is talking to someone yesterday who says he knocks over rabbits at 80yrds regularly, e end had so e at 120yrds,fx sub 12ftlbs, I thought fac meant more power more distance,got me confused now, as I dont know what route to go down now,any advice would be appreciated. 

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read all you can about ranges and make your mind up my fac 22 will only shoot 4in group at 100yrds that's no where near the accuracy to safely dispatch any game,a sub 12flb I wouldn't go beyond 50, think about your quarry a clean kill is what you need not a body shot that might take days if not weeks to kill ,

jb

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He may well be able to bowl over bunnies at that range in perfect conditions. His FX will have been well set up to shoot very good groups. If he knows all his drops at every five yards and rages them to get accurate distance it's quite feasable. At 100 meters a sub 12 ft-lb airgun can put pellets clean through soup cans.

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I have shot rabbits at 100yds with my Daystate (40ft/lbs) when the conditions are right. I never tried past that range - if I wanted to shoot further I would just use my Hmr, but I cant see why it wouldn’t do it after working out all the drops etc

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2 hours ago, figgy said:

At 100 meters a sub 12 ft-lb airgun can put pellets clean through soup cans.

Really? I've never tried shooting that far, but i wouldn't have thought there would be enough power left to penetrate at that range.

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Watch Giles Barry on airgun gear show. Sat in a field plinking at cans a 100 meters away. The pellets are ripping through both sides of the cans. 

It's down to knowing your gun and setting up your scope and chronograph your pellets near and far. Then print out of chairgun the data. Gives you the mildots and half mildots for ranges. Checkout vermin hunters TV and watch Si Pittaway set airguns up. 

Some people can oy hit a cows *** at 25 yards others can hit a bottle top at 80 yards.

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Totally agree. I weigh as an average my H&N Barracuda match 4.52mm and the weigh vert consistantly 10.4 grains. Chairgun pro says there 10.5grain thats an average. Once youve worked out the distance between centre of the barrel to the centre on the scope. You can then input this plus your pellet weight and once chronod your rifle for an average power you can do wonders. I can happily hit a 30mm target at 100m low wind using this calibration.

 

The below is the scope cap sticke for my rifle. All my rifles are setup this way.

 

Anything past the max distance i can read off a card 100m +

IMG-20180627-WA0007.jpg

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2 hours ago, figgy said:

Watch Giles Barry on airgun gear show. Sat in a field plinking at cans a 100 meters away. The pellets are ripping through both sides of the cans. 

It's down to knowing your gun and setting up your scope and chronograph your pellets near and far. Then print out of chairgun the data. Gives you the mildots and half mildots for ranges. Checkout vermin hunters TV and watch Si Pittaway set airguns up. 

Some people can oy hit a cows *** at 25 yards others can hit a bottle top at 80 yards.

sounds good, I'll have look at that.

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On 15/09/2019 at 16:07, ratass said:

read all you can about ranges and make your mind up my fac 22 will only shoot 4in group at 100yrds that's no where near the accuracy to safely dispatch any game,a sub 12flb I wouldn't go beyond 50, think about your quarry a clean kill is what you need not a body shot that might take days if not weeks to kill ,

jb

Sorry but you are wrong with that comment, 4” group at 100 yards , it might be all you are capable of 

my groups at 100 yard are around 22 -30 mm using 18.1 gr pellet

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On 15/09/2019 at 16:10, figgy said:

At 100 meters a sub 12 ft-lb airgun can put pellets clean through soup cans

With around 1.5 ft lbs of energy remaining, I highly doubt that. 

 

On 15/09/2019 at 19:40, figgy said:

 

 

1 hour ago, villaman said:

Sorry but you are wrong with that comment, 4” group at 100 yards , it might be all you are capable of 

my groups at 100 yard are around 22 -30 mm using 18.1 gr pellet

It might be what his scope/gun/ammo combo is capable of? 

 

Edited by Rewulf

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Rewulf have a watch of his videos, some are silly others informative. In one the twig shoots a TX200 218 yards and hits a Firebird target. The dents in it are impressive when he hits it right it explodes. 

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Chairgun gives for a .22 jsb at 100 yds 5.6 fpe retained energy and for a .177 jsb at 100 yds  3.6 fpe .

More than enough  to go through a tin can  

Both with a muzzle energy of11.5 fpe  

Edited by Ultrastu

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hello, why not a FAC air rifle that you can adjust the air output ? theres a FX vermy .22 on gun trader, 9/13/18 ft llb, i see no reason to shoot at rabbits 80 yards with a sub 12 air rifle, i would not even do this with my CZ L/R 22, 

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My personal preference for bunnies is a .22 rimmy with subs, walk/stalk round rather than use a vehicle, IR spotter and scope on a windy, cloudy, dry night with low light, shoot them at 30 yards (you have every advantage stalking into the wind so 30 yards is no problem), no runners, efficient - shoot until you do not want any more to carry or prepare for the table - in my case a max of 10 - just go more nights if you need to.

I get that some folk can hit the eye of a fly at 52 miles when shooting at paper - paper does not move unexpectedly. When a rabbit is feeding its head is down, it will often lift its head for a gander around, its head moves upwards and backwards, you cannot predict when it will do this. If you are  on the right spot for a head shot and it lifts its head as you shoot you are looking at a lower jaw shot and a runner - that is not ethical in my view.

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3 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Chairgun gives for a .22 jsb at 100 yds 5.6 fpe retained energy and for a .177 jsb at 100 yds  3.6 fpe .

More than enough  to go through a tin can  

Both with a muzzle energy of11.5 fpe  

Not on my chairgun it doesnt .

Edit , just re checked .22 pellet 16 gn  11.95 ft lbs @ the muzzle , BC of .015 @ 110 yard (100 m) retains 1.4 ft lb.

Check your BC Stu

 

8 hours ago, figgy said:

Rewulf have a watch of his videos, some are silly others informative. In one the twig shoots a TX200 218 yards and hits a Firebird target. The dents in it are impressive when he hits it right it explodes. 

You do realise the maximum distance a 12 ft lb gun  can possibly travel, at optimum angle is around 220 yards ?

Edit, same data as above, pellet drop at the muzzle (no angle) = 1900 INCHES @ 220 yards, compensate that !

Ill check the vids though.

Edited by Rewulf

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Yep your right your bc of  0.015 is too low .well for a jsb exact it is .that bc is probably  correct for a rws hobby .

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4 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Yep your right your bc of  0.015 is too low .well for a jsb exact it is .that bc is probably  correct for a rws hobby .

My apologies , .015 is  correct for .177 , .22 is indeed .03

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Check the FX Crown video the Fzx streamline video and the Brockock Bantam target video. Two are at 100 yards on is 100meters 109 yards. There is another I watched but I'm not looking at anymore to find where he shows the pellets have passed through both sides of the soup cans.  

You can clearly see on some where the pellets have come through and pushed the tin and paper outwards.

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1 hour ago, Rewulf said:

My apologies , .015 is  correct for .177 , .22 is indeed .03

Bc s of pellets are just averages at best  .obviously some pellets will be more consistent in the calculated bc over a shot string ..others will vary massivley. 

Generally the higher average  bc of a pellet the more consistent those values will be .so a (high ish ) bc of a jsb exact .22 at 16 grn will over say  10 shots probably vary between 0.025 - 0.035 

Averaging out at around 0.031 .

The same .177 exact .going from 0.015 to 0.028 .a winder spread. Averaging out at around 0.021 ..

The gun and barrel and a million other factors can alter the bc of a pellet from shot to shot .and even for a singular pellet in flight .. 

Bc is a good  guess at best .but even so ,still a worth while tool .

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1 minute ago, Ultrastu said:

Bc is a good  guess at best .but even so ,still a worth while tool .

Agreed.

But it makes a massive difference when using  a ballistic calculator.

I used to do a lot of national level FT (always .177 obviously) and we did a lot of experimentation with 100 yard shots as a bit of fun.
Whilst getting decent groups at up to 60 -70 yards , after that, the decrease in velocity and stability, made getting any kind of group at 100 + yards very optimistic.
This is with match guns , match pellets, and some very expensive glass !
This is why Im always dubious of these claims of long distance sub 12 ft lb shooting, some of the best shots in the country struggle to hit a 25mm kill zone at 60 yards, with the best equipment available.
Then you hear someone with a TX 200 hitting sub inch groups at 100 ?

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 a small green beer bottle is an impressive shot for a 12ft lb gun but is it accurate enough for hunting? make you own mind up.

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