If Labour get in power......

[bostonmick]

28 minutes ago, oowee said:

What party put us where when they voted in???

Food bank numbers and use are at record levels. 14.3 m in poverty in the UK thats about 20% ish.

Govts own figures are 11%. 

Yep its bad whichever way you look. 

A lot of the food bank users go there so they can use the benefit money to buy fags. Beer and drugs. There are professional claimants abusing every which way. 

3 minutes ago, ditchman said:

dont get me started on food banks........if folk stopped......

 

1. buying everything on credit 
2. fridges
3. freezers
4. cookers
5. carpets
6. beds
7. televisions
8. microwaves
9. mobile phone contracts
10. sky TV
11. car
12. computor connection

et al on and on and on

they would be £100's of pounds better off /mth.........there is very rarely i by anything new....i have free view and spend £3.00/mth on my mobile phone which cost me new £14.99

cut your cloth acc' to your needs..

+100

[ShootingEgg]

4 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

This country has a tiny amount of people living in poverty. Most of those who claim to be are there because they want to be. Poverty is not being able to afford the full sky package. Or have the latest iPhone. Laptop etc. 

Hit... Nail... Head... 

Spot on. 

[bostonmick]

4 minutes ago, oowee said:

Just 11m according to the Governments figures. 

Perhaps you could explain what poverty is then. 

[ShootingEgg]

Just now, bostonmick said:

Perhaps you could explain what poverty is then. 

Isn't it being paid 15k or less a year? 

The only people on poverty in this country are the genuinely homeless. 

[GingerCat]

The poverty thing really gets me. Whilst there are some in real poverty, I can recall clearly others apparently in poverty that fit the 11m fiqures and it's not what I describe as poverty. 

Being in my profession you get to go into a lot of homes. Normally univited. The haygate and Aylesbury estates in Southwark being some of them. Apparently some of the most poverty stricken areas in the whole of the UK. 

Rarely was the heating not on full blast, rarely was there not at least 1 50 inch led tv, at least 1 Xbox per child, at least 1 dog, more clothes than I've ever had (mostly designer), fridges and freezers full of food. Keys to a car (mostly more than I can afford and often a bmw,  audi)  everyone had an iPhone. Jewellery dripping off them. Lots of smokes and drink in the home as well. They normally didn't work. You paid for all that.

I can't  recall how excatly many I saw, hundreds and hundreds would be an accurate figure. 

Poverty. Yeah ok. If you say so. 

[Mice!]

34 minutes ago, oowee said:

Even the SNP starts to look attractive. 🙂 At least Scotland's proportional voting system avoids the worst of the extremists. Why are Scotland leaving the UK behind?

 

26 minutes ago, johnphilip said:

Scotland could never afford to leave the rest of the uk . The SNP are anti English full stop . They are dreaming of freedom . And sod the cost .

John sums it up, pretty sure Scotland is supported by England, if they manage to leave the union they'll be going down hill fast. 

[bluesj]

I'm sure 1of those in "poverty" is someone I went to school with. He never had any intention of ever getting a job, and was more than happy to let everyone else know it! 

[oowee]

It can be argued that the measure of a country's wealth is the size of its population in poverty. As the rich get richer the poor get poorer. The politics we hear today has changed little since I started voting. Very little changes through good times or bad. It cannot be right that we have the problems we have when we are such a 'wealthy nation'. How can we break free from the spiral of decline with an also ran political system driven by headlines in the mail, sun and mirror (or whatever it is these days). 

A simple example. The housing crisis. We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes. At the same time millions of us (and i mean millions) have become millionaires sitting in our own homes doing nothing. All the parties want to tackle the issue which has been going as long as i have voted and achieved nothing. Why ? Because its the same old same old left right short term policies. When Greta says you have stolen my future she speaks to all of us and not just about climate change. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by oowee

[Scully]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

No problem then 😖

It cant be right that a country with our wealth still has so many in poverty, You're right, but being in the EU hasn't changed any of that. It's not third world poverty. Even those you claim are living in poverty in this country are much better off than many in other countries. such poor levels of educational attainment, a housing crisis, a poorly funded NHS, a care system crumbling at the seams and the same old party politics moving further to each extreme. We have Corbyn turning into Marx (or whatever the correct red lable is) and the Tories in complete denial with an I'm all right sod the rest mentality. The country is going to pot we need something new politics not the same old same old do, nothing whilst we go rotten from the inside out. And remaining in the EU is going to rectify all this is it? 

My pension . I know, it tickles me too! 🙂

 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, ShootingEgg said:

Isn't it being paid 15k or less a year? 

 

I can't recall now. For a number of years I lived below the governments official poverty level. I had a job, a mortgage and two kids, and I didn't even know that officially we were living in poverty until my OH informed me! 😀 She wasn't too pleased when I started earning more and she lost her child tax credits, even less so when she had to repay some of it! There's no pleasing some folk. 🙂

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Gordon Benett!

Surprise surprise, remainers moaning again!

As Scully and others have pointed out, the real poverty is not within this country.

As to what staying within the hold of the mighty EU would do to help, give it a rest, we are leaving soon, very soon.

Edited September 29, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE
SPELLAGE!

[ShootingEgg]

40 minutes ago, oowee said:

 

A simple example. The housing crisis. We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes.

Just to go on the flip side of this. Myself and my partner have just had an offer accepted. I already own a property and so does she, but we have worked hard and can afford to move in together and keep the properties we own. 

I'm sure some on here will go left like corbyn on me. But I have worked my butt off since the age of 15, now 35. And so has my partner, 30. So I'm sorry this whole I can't afford a home is just an excuse of not saving, choosing maybe to do a degree about something that will never get used, then moan they are paying a loan back. 

[del.gue]

1 hour ago, GingerCat said:

The poverty thing really gets me. Whilst there are some in real poverty, I can recall clearly others apparently in poverty that fit the 11m fiqures and it's not what I describe as poverty. 

Being in my profession you get to go into a lot of homes. Normally univited. The haygate and Aylesbury estates in Southwark being some of them. Apparently some of the most poverty stricken areas in the whole of the UK. 

Rarely was the heating not on full blast, rarely was there not at least 1 50 inch led tv, at least 1 Xbox per child, at least 1 dog, more clothes than I've ever had (mostly designer), fridges and freezers full of food. Keys to a car (mostly more than I can afford and often a bmw,  audi)  everyone had an iPhone. Jewellery dripping off them. Lots of smokes and drink in the home as well. They normally didn't work. You paid for all that.

I can't  recall how excatly many I saw, hundreds and hundreds would be an accurate figure. 

Poverty. Yeah ok. If you say so. 

Spot on... i have always been suspicious of people who use things like food banks.

I know there are people in need and everyone needs a hand occasionally. But on the run up to the last election that May b***** up i was in the dentist waiting room. A young woman about 25ish was in with her mother. (I gleaned that from the chat they were having).

Mother asked if her friend beccy had been to the food bank. Daughter said she had and that they had been good to her...all nice so far!

The conversation drifted and then again went back to beccy... mother asked if beccy was still going to spain for her holidays... no, replied, daughter...she is saving to go to disneyland!!!

At which point i stood up and went to sit in outside the waiting room!

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

A simple example. The housing crisis. We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes. At the same time millions of us (and i mean millions) have become millionaires sitting in our own homes doing nothing.

I have said it before - and I'll say it again (despite some not liking it).  It isn't too few houses .......... it is too many people.

Some will disagree - but that in my opinion is the route cause of so many of (the worlds) problems.

Edited September 29, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[bostonmick]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

It can be argued that the measure of a country's wealth is the size of its population in poverty. As the rich get richer the poor get poorer. The politics we hear today has changed little since I started voting. Very little changes through good times or bad. It cannot be right that we have the problems we have when we are such a 'wealthy nation'. How can we break free from the spiral of decline with an also ran political system driven by headlines in the mail, sun and mirror (or whatever it is these days). 

A simple example. The housing crisis. We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes. At the same time millions of us (and i mean millions) have become millionaires sitting in our own homes doing nothing. All the parties want to tackle the issue which has been going as long as i have voted and achieved nothing. Why ? Because its the same old same old left right short term policies. When Greta says you have stolen my future she speaks to all of us and not just about climate change. 

The true crisis in housing is not a shortage its the amount of properties where the rent is being paid for by the taxpayer. One report said there was over a million empty properties in this country. Also a lot of young people do not want to buy they prefer to rent don't want the responsibility of ownership or the commitment. They want their ne cars on finance their credit cards to the hilt. A couple of foriegn holidays a year and weekends spent in the clubs etc with their designer clothes on parade. There is a massive sense of entitlement in society today. 

9 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I have said it before - and I'll say it again (despite some not liking it).  It isn't too few houses .......... it is too many people.

Some will disagree - but that in my opinion is the route cause of so many of (the worlds) problems.

+++

[GingerCat]

Apparently poverty is defined as 

an income less than:

• £248 a week for a couple with no children
• £144 a week for a single person with no children
• £401 a week for a couple with two children aged between five and 14
• £297 a week for single parent with two children aged between five and 14

Minimum wage pays £294 per week before tax for a full (37.5) week and if you have kids working family tax credit would assist on such a wage. 

So assuming your able bodied and don't mind working a full week there should be no reason for anyone to be in relative poverty. But then the question of why work when someone else will pay you to sit about whilst someone else works springs up and they vote Labour again. 

[Mice!]

43 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

Just to go on the flip side of this. Myself and my partner have just had an offer accepted. I already own a property and so does she, but we have worked hard and can afford to move in together and keep the properties we own. 

I'm sure some on here will go left like corbyn on me. But I have worked my butt off since the age of 15, now 35. And so has my partner, 30. So I'm sorry this whole I can't afford a home is just an excuse of not saving, choosing maybe to do a degree about something that will never get used, then moan they are paying a loan back. 

That should be everyone's aim, do well.

If your not working or happy to rent then why put others down who have worked hard for what they have.

I'm absolutely convinced there are many many people living beyond their means, who want new cars, phones foreign holidays.

Always amazes me that the Labour party seems to be backed by people happy to not labour, while the Labour party are happy to have people not working on benefits voting for them.

My Grandad was a stout Labour voter, I'm 100% confident he wouldn't vote for this lot.

[ShootingEgg]

1 hour ago, JohnfromUK said:

 

Some will disagree - but that in my opinion is the route cause of so many of (the worlds) problems.

Population is the key, across the whole world, what happens in the animal world, over population results in disease, we as humans have just evolved and been able to create cures and allow us to live longer equalling a higher populas. 

[panoma1]

Cut more slices out of a cake and everyone gets a smaller piece.......and a few more get none...........that’s not the only reason, but one reason why the UK voted for Brexit!

An increasing population in the UK, however it happens, means less for those already here!......less school places, less houses, less jobs, less hospital places, less social care, longer waiting lists, etc etc etc!

[bostonmick]

Free movement of people is the downfall of the EU. It can never work there needs to be controls. 

[oowee]

2 hours ago, bostonmick said:

Free movement of people is the downfall of the EU. It can never work there needs to be controls. 

 

Not at all. Free movement is what reduces wages in high wage rate countries and raises wages in low rate countries it make s the EU more competitive and reduces inequalities.

But this thread is about if labour gets into power its not about the EU. If labour gets into power it will be the same stuff regurgitated again only more left to counter the Tory shift right. If the Tories get in it will be the same stuff regurgitated to again only more right to counter the labour shift left. It really makes very little difference.

Given the momentous decision to leave the EU surely we should be looking for a corresponding shift in the way we do politics? I would favour a UK constitution that removes the power of parties to lurch the country from left to right slowing down progress. What if we had maximum spending thresholds for government expenditure? Minimum investment in NHS, armed forces, education. Sustainability targets and cross government requirements for  joint working. Whatever was in the constitution would be there for long term benefit rather than for a government 4 year election life span.

Why think small politics when we can thing big?

Edited September 30, 2019 by oowee

[bostonmick]

6 hours ago, oowee said:

 

Not at all. Free movement is what reduces wages in high wage rate countries and raises wages in low rate countries it make s the EU more competitive and reduces inequalities.

But this thread is about if labour gets into power its not about the EU. If labour gets into power it will be the same stuff regurgitated again only more left to counter the Tory shift right. If the Tories get in it will be the same stuff regurgitated to again only more right to counter the labour shift left. It really makes very little difference.

Given the momentous decision to leave the EU surely we should be looking for a corresponding shift in the way we do politics? I would favour a UK constitution that removes the power of parties to lurch the country from left to right slowing down progress. What if we had maximum spending thresholds for government expenditure? Minimum investment in NHS, armed forces, education. Sustainability targets and cross government requirements for  joint working. Whatever was in the constitution would be there for long term benefit rather than for a government 4 year election life span.

Why think small politics when we can thing big?

If Labour get in then you will be thinking big. Big deficit in all areas. What would your minimum and maximum spends be dependant on. Population maybe. Well under the current rules that changes daily so the limits would also change daily. I believe that is very close to uncertainty. 

[Demonic69]

16 hours ago, oowee said:

It can be argued that the measure of a country's wealth is the size of its population in poverty. As the rich get richer the poor get poorer. 

A simple example. The housing crisis. We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes. 

"As the rich get richer the poor get poorer." Only in relation to median wealth. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor can't now afford bread or heating, past a certain point the wealthy's incomes have no bearing on what us peasants can and can't afford. As overall wealth rises so does the tax received, impacting inflation which affects inflation, bringing up minimum wages and benefits to suit.

 

"We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes" we have thousands of schemes to help people sleeping rough, not to mention the Council's and Government's responsibilities to minimum levels of housing/income. Aside from a few trapped in bureaucracy, the majority are eligible for a nice council house plus income support.

Our kids CAN afford homes, the just don't want to start in a 2-bed ex-council terrace or semi, they want a 4 bed detached on a new build estate with the partner they've been with for 5 minutes. The Gov't help to buy scheme proves that, a majority take up by under 25's who could have easily afforded a cheaper house, but were desperate to prove their superiority that they'd saddle themselves with a £300k mortgage and negative equity.

[Mice!]

25 minutes ago, Demonic69 said:

"As the rich get richer the poor get poorer." Only in relation to median wealth. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor can't now afford bread or heating, past a certain point the wealthy's incomes have no bearing on what us peasants can and can't afford. As overall wealth rises so does the tax received, impacting inflation which affects inflation, bringing up minimum wages and benefits to suit.

 

"We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes" we have thousands of schemes to help people sleeping rough, not to mention the Council's and Government's responsibilities to minimum levels of housing/income. Aside from a few trapped in bureaucracy, the majority are eligible for a nice council house plus income support.

Our kids CAN afford homes, the just don't want to start in a 2-bed ex-council terrace or semi, they want a 4 bed detached on a new build estate with the partner they've been with for 5 minutes. The Gov't help to buy scheme proves that, a majority take up by under 25's who could have easily afforded a cheaper house, but were desperate to prove their superiority that they'd saddle themselves with a £300k mortgage and negative equity.

very well said, folk don't want to move up the ladder they want the show house.

[oowee]

2 hours ago, Demonic69 said:

"As the rich get richer the poor get poorer." Only in relation to median wealth. The rich getting richer doesn't mean the poor can't now afford bread or heating, past a certain point the wealthy's incomes have no bearing on what us peasants can and can't afford. As overall wealth rises so does the tax received, impacting inflation which affects inflation, bringing up minimum wages and benefits to suit.

 

"We have people sleeping rough on the streets and our kids cannot afford homes" we have thousands of schemes to help people sleeping rough, not to mention the Council's and Government's responsibilities to minimum levels of housing/income. Aside from a few trapped in bureaucracy, the majority are eligible for a nice council house plus income support.

Our kids CAN afford homes, the just don't want to start in a 2-bed ex-council terrace or semi, they want a 4 bed detached on a new build estate with the partner they've been with for 5 minutes. The Gov't help to buy scheme proves that, a majority take up by under 25's who could have easily afforded a cheaper house, but were desperate to prove their superiority that they'd saddle themselves with a £300k mortgage and negative equity.

 

2 hours ago, Mice! said:

very well said, folk don't want to move up the ladder they want the show house.

Take a look. 

https://crisis.org.uk/ending-homelessness/housing/