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bruno22rf

RWS Supermag

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After experiencing yet another Squirrel being still alert and very much alive after being shot clean thru the head I am searching for something that will stop dead - the Supermag looks promising - anybody have any experience using them over medium range. If you want to say that anything shot clean thru the head is dead then please refrain - this is not my imagination and it has happened several times before - the shot was clinical and perfectly placed.

Edited by bruno22rf

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Describe what happened after it was shot. Assuming you shot it through the brain rather than the jaw, then I can only think it was dead. I have never seen anything survive a brain shot. Plenty of jumping about with nerves but nothing more.

I cant imagine any pellet is going to be any better or worse than another with that placement. 

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I used to shoot a fair few rabbits using the super h point in.22.

People always warned about poor groups but they worked well enough for me at 30-40yds.

Gone to .177 now and just use the superdomes as they suit my rifle.

The super h points killed very well. (Sub 12ft).

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Here we go.....I refuse to photograph an animal in distress, my duty is to dispatch it asap therefore you need to take my word for it. It was NOT shot thru the Jaw/Ear/ Nose but cleanly just behind the eye and it was alert to me approaching it ( this is not the first time I have posted on this situation) and , on being prodded with the barrel, attempted to bury itself under brush. It was not jumping about and even my wife witnessed it crawling away after dropping post impact. I have no desire to start a debate on this being believable because it's happened more than once - I simply ask for opinions on the Supermags. Thank you aga man - but the Supermags?

Edited by bruno22rf

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Not seen the super mags Bruno, but I'd certainly say to try some of the hollow points, so long as the range and groupings are good enough?

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13 minutes ago, bruno22rf said:

Thank you aga man - but the Supermags?

Never tried them before. Sorry.

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Last time this happened to me I got a second shot PDQ into the ribs and that was that.

If they don't jump about, something's not right, be ready to get another shot off.

Out of astonishment I carried out a PM on the head shot and the animal must have turned slightly and the pellet had just touched the brain and caused no damage.

No change of pellet would have changed the outcome.

If its still about a PM will reveal all.

 

Edited by Robertt

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Ive often considered supermags  .but never got round to trying them .

I do shoot h+n hunter extreems. And these really do put quarry down hard .especially rabbits. Very effective too on squirrels out to around 30 yds .the energy retention starts to drop off after this and makes penetration a bit too shallow  .give em a try  

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JSB Hades or one of h&n extreme pellets. Want as much shock and damage as possible.

Wadcutters were good at close range upto about 15 yards on rats or pigeon in barns, got inaccurate after that. But try a tin in your gun. 

The hollow point type were better with a dimple in the head.

After trying lots over the years I go back to standard dome heads. They just seem to work.  Bisley magnums do the job well too if a bit more thump.is required.

Did the pellet go clean through the skull and brain or skim under the skin around the skull. Squizzers if not hit exactly square can have pellets not penetrate the skull cavity.

I tend to go for the heart lung shots on them, less flip flopping around spraying blood everywhere around  feeders.

Edited by figgy

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Thanks for the replies so far - when I had this problem before I did, indeed, switch to Hunter Extremes and they worked much better but even using them I witnessed the odd Squizzer still alive after being head shot ( I ended last years shooting by only using my .22) although I had noted that longer range victims seemed to drop stone dead. I'm thinking this is simply a case of the pellet not delivering much shock at shorter ranges ( vast majority are 20 yards max) so a flat head, heavier pellet, like the Supermag might do the job as long as they are accurate in my Cat.

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We'll I'll put your cat amongst the squirrels then and say the same as Figgy, why not go for body shots? Heart and lungs? But at twenty yards any hollow point should be easily good enough.

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I have had several head shot squirrels still being alive when retrieved, I'm not convinced its the best way to shoot them. Chest shots seem to drop them equally as well as head shots.

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14 hours ago, Robertt said:

Last time this happened to me I got a second shot PDQ into the ribs and that was that.

If they don't jump about, something's not right, be ready to get another shot off.

Out of astonishment I carried out a PM on the head shot and the animal must have turned slightly and the pellet had just touched the brain and caused no damage.

No change of pellet would have changed the outcome.

If its still about a PM will reveal all.

 

I would tend to agree, I went on record a long time back saying the notion that head shot game would mean quick death was a simple myth, obviously a .222 taking the head clean off a rabbit is going to work 100% but having had undead "flappers" with shot gunned woodies as well as air gunned rabbits, I would argue that it's an unfortunate and unavoidable reality that unless the exact right part of the head is hit you sometimes end up getting wounded animals that would have expired far quicker had they been shot in the rib cage/heart etc,. 

I've had surprisingly good under 40 yard accuracy from H & N Baracuda Hunter Extremes in .22 and they certainly appear to cause more bleeding when I've used them on collared doves and starlings (where permitted), might  be worth having a go with these or regular wadcutters and shooting them in the chest if you don't intend to eat them. 

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https://www.daileisure.co.uk/rws-supermag-.177

£7 a tin nothing to loose really in trying them? 

What pellet are you using at the moment?

https://www.daileisure.co.uk/bisley-magnum-177

everyone likes Bis mags

https://www.daileisure.co.uk/bisley-pest-control-177

Bis pest control

https://www.daileisure.co.uk/bisley-pellet-sample-pack

looks a good idea to try a few out.

https://www.daileisure.co.uk/bisley-superfield-pellets-177

I always liked superfield pellets but they didn't load well in my rapid, by far the best hollow point pellet i always thought 

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99.9% of squirrels,  I shoot through the Brain.

Out of several hundreds I have had what you desribed twice and on both occasions a PM revealed, a head shot but at an angle causing little if any Brain damage.

A Squirrel with its brains in bits doesn't go digging holes.

Edited by Robertt

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Bruno when you say pellet entered just behind the eye. It may not have entered the brain but gone through just under or touched part that didn't kill it.

We all think brain shot and dead, look how many people survive some horrific head and brain injury.

I just found engine room shots allow a little more room for error if the twitch or move a touch as you squeeze the trigger.

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Using Field Target Trophy (Remington thunder) at the moment because they turned out to be most accurate in the Cat - ordered some Supermags from evilbay to try but still have some Hunter Extremes from previous .177 - bit anxious about feeding a flathead so I'm off to the garden now to give some old Hobby a trial.

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come on Bruno how did you get on? Some of us are in work waiting to know 😅😅 

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Right then - what a tale of Woe. The Hobby are an absolute sod to load - had to tap the cocking lever with the palm of my hand to get some of them in the breach - they then patterned like a  .410 over my 27 yard range. Next I tried Superdomes - these again seemed 8 of the most unsociable pellets ever as they refused to stay in a group - good old JSB went the same way so I gave up, well.almost. To try and regain some sanity I filled the mag with it's normal FTT and sent 8 downrange - worst group ever from these, normally exemplary, rounds. I can only surmise that I have moved something or filled the breach with clippings so I spent an hour removing the barrel and cleaning everything thoroughly - back to normal now but strangely now getting superb groups with Superdomes as well?

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As your probably aware .an fx barrel doesnt have the normal lands and grooves of a standard rifled barrel .instead its just a smooth tube with a twist pressed into the last 2 inches  

This makes it very suceptable to lead deposits collecting in the barrel  .smears of lead from incompatible pellets left at different points  waiting to be picked up or damage the new incoming pellet .

Hard lead pellets dont often work well in smooth twist barrels .so that would be rws and crosman .

Jsb pellets being pretty soft often work the best followed by h+n .

 

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Thanks Stu - that's interesting. The patch I pulled thru was dark grey so fairly well leaded - less than a month since it was last cleaned and about 200 shots later. The Hobby have made me realise that the Supermags are never going to load easily so that's a tenner down the pan - going to sit in a corner and be grumpy for a few days now while I decide what to do next, Squirrel season, for me, is almost upon us so time is not on my side but ,at least, I still have the .22 S410.

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The good thing about h+n pellets is .

If your barrel likes one type .its very likey to like the other varients (well my bsa barrels do ) .so if it likes  ftts .it should also like the barracuda varieties. Including the extreems  .this would allow u to play with pointed  , domed ,hollow , and flatheads  all from h+n  

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well that's not good, sounds like the hobby are possibly tipping as they come out the mag?

What is the crown like?

heart and lungs?

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