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Had a great day on the partridges today shooting my side by side  - decided to be really traditional, and used Lyalvale Express paper cases, given to me by a friend to try, I have to say these were a real eye opener, and performed without fault, they were also virtually no recoil, which did surprise me, as I have been led to believe they can be quite punchy.

I fully intend to use these for the rest of my game shooting this season - has, or does, anyone else have experience of these cartridges..?

I read of many people, some of my friends included, say they can't get on with side by sides because of recoil etc - no wonder when you feed them crazy loads, try some of these Lyalvale 28 / 30g fibre in paper cases.

Another plus point was the smell of the spent cases😍

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I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother.

How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war?

To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?)  requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0   but they are harsher and  rubbish in comparison.  

For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of.

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20 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother.

How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war?

To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?)  requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0   but they are harsher and  rubbish in comparison.  

For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of.

Good post Vince - and sets you thinking 

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17 hours ago, Vince Green said:

modern cartridges are a very poor substitute.

It's all about 'velocity' figures these days.  They are all 'Ultrafast', Superfast', or 'High velocity' or some other 'buzzword or phrase' to suggest they are faster.

A good cartridge should pattern well, and pushing the velocity up makes (in real terms) no difference to lead, and a very marginal difference to striking energy (at the target range).  What makes a gun/cartridge a good match is a good pattern, and pleasant to shoot.  My personal favourite is Hull Imperial for game in either 26g or 28g, and Hull CompX 21g for clays.  High velocity isn't always good for pattern.

Most of my shooting is through an AyA No 1 s/s.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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Always use paper cases for my game shooting (weather permitting)

never had a problem with them in the appropriate gun choke combination 

im with john on this too much hype on speed just need a good consistent cartridge that you can shoot all day long 

what does super fast actually mean? 

It gets there faster ok 

mine get there slower so to shoot in the same place I may need another inch or two of lead 🤭

just a little footnote here 

eley impax paper shoot totally different to eley impax plastic case 

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Yes but what sort . I have been told shellac ,  lacker ,  Poundland mystery varnish  etc etc  but what was traditionally used back in the day when all cases were paper.

I have yet to find out after looking in quite a few old books . I have seen pictures of the cartridges being dipped by hand 25 at a time in a frame then left to dry but no mention of what the actual coating is . Any help would be appreciated.

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3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

It's all about 'velocity' figures these days.  They are all 'Ultrafast', Superfast', or 'High velocity' or some other 'buzzword or phrase' to suggest they are faster.

A good cartridge should pattern well, and pushing the velocity up makes (in real terms) no difference to lead, and a very marginal difference to striking energy (at the target range).  What makes a gun/cartridge a good match is a good pattern, and pleasant to shoot.  My personal favourite is Hull Imperial for game in either 26g or 28g, and Hull CompX 21g for clays.  High velocity isn't always good for pattern.

Most of my shooting is through an AyA No 1 s/s.

These “Ultrafast, Superfast, High Velocity type cartridges are, I imagine, more appropriate for use in modern heavy 70mm chambered (O/U) guns, they are not designed for traditional light English SBS’s.......high velocity in a light gun, causes uncomfortable recoil and will likely result in a light English SBS gun soon being shot ”off the face”......65mm 28/30g fibre game cartridges are more suitable.....and comfortable!

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4 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Always use paper cases for my game shooting (weather permitting)

never had a problem with them in the appropriate gun choke combination 

im with john on this too much hype on speed just need a good consistent cartridge that you can shoot all day long 

what does super fast actually mean? 

It gets there faster ok 

mine get there slower so to shoot in the same place I may need another inch or two of lead 🤭

just a little footnote here 

eley impax paper shoot totally different to eley impax plastic case 

What differences did you notice between the Impax?

I was given some of Chaplins "Cushion Loads" a few seasons ago and was really impressed. 28gm paper cased 6's loaded by Hull.

A question to regular paper case users, who in your opinion makes the best version? Eley,Hull,Gamebore or Express? I'm aware RC also occasionally produce them but they're few and far between in 12 bore.

WR.

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4 minutes ago, White Rabbit said:

What differences did you notice between the Impax?

I was given some of Chaplins "Cushion Loads" a few seasons ago and was really impressed. 28gm paper cased 6's loaded by Hull.

A question to regular paper case users, who in your opinion makes the best version? Eley,Hull,Gamebore or Express? I'm aware RC also occasionally produce them but they're few and far between in 12 bore.

WR.

Just a better cartridge altogether pattern the way it feels and sounds and performs in my gun 

personally think they seal better in the chambers and generally do what they were designed for in the gun that was built before they had plastic  

i use eley although I’ve just got 500 Hull 30 gram that I’ll try at the weekend (rain permitting) 

i also use a 34 gram rc but not in a light ss 

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Many thanks.

I'll have to see what I can find on my travels. The 34gm White Paper aren't available locally. Around 25yrs ago RC loaded their 28gm Professional Game in a green paper case. It was a lovely load to shoot and patterned perfectly. I used 500 then supply dried up.

I'll try Impax and Three Crowns and see how I get on.

WR.

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1 hour ago, White Rabbit said:

Many thanks.

I'll have to see what I can find on my travels. The 34gm White Paper aren't available locally. Around 25yrs ago RC loaded their 28gm Professional Game in a green paper case. It was a lovely load to shoot and patterned perfectly. I used 500 then supply dried up.

I'll try Impax and Three Crowns and see how I get on.

WR.

As I said in my original post - I loved the Lyalvale express 28grm fibre paper, virtually no recoil and performed well

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On 30/09/2019 at 22:00, Vince Green said:

I'm old enough to remember "real" cartridges which carried a 30g or 32g shot load but a nice slow burning powder charge which made them sweet to shoot in a sxs but allowed the shooter to shoot 100+ in a day with no bother.

How else do you think the big shoots on estates like Sandringham pulled down the massive bags that they did in the years leading up to the first world war?

To me, today, modern cartridges are a very poor substitute. Ultra fast burning powders are cheaper, (OK? is that good?)  requiring a much lower powder charge (why is that an advantage? apart from cost) and less shot (definitely not an advantage0   but they are harsher and  rubbish in comparison.  

For those that reload, look at loads for 32g of shot and Green Dot or Unique powder and learn what real cartridges are all about. It doesn't have to be paper cased or felt wads but in time you will realise something about cartridges you probably hadn't been aware of.

Right enough. Nothing much else that I can do at the moment so some figures based on 28g of No 7 for 40 yards.

Velocity Rating MV (0)         Velocity          Energy          Time          Momentum

Standard 1300                        605                 1.046           0.148            11.09

HV 1350                                  612.4              1.07              0.146            11.52

Superfast 1425                     622.8               1.1                0.143            12.16

Ultrafast 1500                       632.3               1.14             0.140             12 8

Hyperfast 1600                    645.2               1.19             0.136              13.7

Why risk getting knocked about for very little gain? 

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Guest cookoff013

Some of the loads i make are for older gents to reload.

Most of my subsonic series or near supersonic loadings tickle one end and hit like a freight train the other.

Pattern stella too.

 

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17 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

Some of the loads i make are for older gents to reload.

Most of my subsonic series or near supersonic loadings tickle one end and hit like a freight train the other.

Pattern stella too.

 

Yep.

As Table above, based on 32g of No 5 at 40 yards.

Subsonic 1100       613.6       1.7       0.153       10.7      

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Bought some RC 34 gram paper whites last season so fairly sure they are still available 

tried some 30 gram 6 and 30 gram 5 paper cased Hull 3crowns 2 1/2 inch 65mm at the weekend very good results in my game gun so I shall be using them when I feel my normal 28 gram/ounce isn’t quite up to the job 

did notice a bit of the crimp torn away after firing but nut enough to worry about 

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