manthing Posted October 22, 2019 Report Share Posted October 22, 2019 Hi peeps, a petition has been started to get trespass upgraded to a criminal rather than civil offence. If you feel you can sign please do so. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/277580 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Marker Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 I can see where this comes from, but crominalisong treaspass could also mean honest shooters could end up with a criminal record. Imagine if you were on some land and accidentally crossed onto some other land? Or am I completely wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Private Marker said: I can see where this comes from, but crominalisong treaspass could also mean honest shooters could end up with a criminal record. Imagine if you were on some land and accidentally crossed onto some other land? Or am I completely wrong? Surely that would be armed trespass anyway, which I believe is criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Marker Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Ooops, that's a good point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 We are all quite familiar with the fact that with regard to many of our laws the innocent suffer because of the guilty. This change would be another example, but unusually, this one shouldn't affect us too much. As a victim I can also appreciate where the petitioner is coming from. The activities that caused her to raise the petition are not those of genuine protectionists or conservationists but hooligans and thieves using the cause as a disguise. Genuine folk might object to this but I don't give two hoots about two wrongs not making a right and until you stop tarring us all with the same brush you really can't complain if we reciprocate. These scum are very difficult to catch and under present legislation need to be caught in the act. Consequently, changing the law might just concentrate a few minds. I'd go a stage further and suggest it consists of two levels with differing penalties - namely night and day. Not surprisingly, signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) Given the Scottish perspective, where the 'right to roam' in place now for well over a decade, with (except in limited circumstances) no real issues, i suspect that the petition will get no where, especially as long as farmers and landowners continue to take large sums from the taxpayer in the form of agricultural and forestry subsidies. In fact i suspect pressure will be to go the opposite way and allow further public access. Edited October 23, 2019 by Stonepark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) I do not follow the ethos of this petition. Currently where someone trespassing carries out acts that prevent someone from going about their lawful business they are committing an offence of aggravated trespass, which is a criminal offence. There are thousands upon thousands of 'innocent' acts of trespass on a daily basis mostly unintentional. Anyone who knows or uses the countryside for any pursuit or activity will know and appreciate how hard it is to avoid trespass. Making it a criminal offence is out of proportion to the offence itself. Edited October 23, 2019 by oowee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 I can see the frustration of landowners with regards tresspass. No one wants strangers wandering across land you own, they wouldn't like you wandering around in their garden at will. But to criminalise it, are we not already kind by enough laws as it is without wishing for more. As for antis tresspassing, laws should be enforced to deal with them but it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) I would like to stop the extremist anti terrorists having access to land, but if this became law we would be in danger of “throwing the baby out with the bath water” Edited October 23, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 I wouldn't mind betting that a fair number of us could earn a criminal conviction every day. But we don't. Even if Plod saw us he wouldn't turn a hair. Unless, of course, the circumstances were such that he should act and the legislation is in place permitting him to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Stonepark said: Given the Scottish perspective, where the 'right to roam' in place now for well over a decade, with (except in limited circumstances) no real issues, i suspect that the petition will get no where, especially as long as farmers and landowners continue to take large sums from the taxpayer in the form of agricultural and forestry subsidies. In fact i suspect pressure will be to go the opposite way and allow further public access. Yup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Not signing it - if you are trespassing and you are asked to leave then you must do so - refusal is aggravated trespass isn't it? which is already illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Private Marker said: I can see where this comes from, but crominalisong treaspass could also mean honest shooters could end up with a criminal record. Imagine if you were on some land and accidentally crossed onto some other land? Or am I completely wrong? Do that in Texas and you are in very serious trouble. They have sensible good trespass laws....YOU DON'T... We had some youths trespas on the mountain on the ranch we leased and the response had us all speechles. All three arrested, truck confiscated and crushed and one of them had previous and was looking at a 6month sentence !!! The ranch owner was very specific when i first went there. If you don't know I own that land over that fence, then do not go there. With a rifle that becomes armed trespass and carries a considrable prison sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveboy Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Anybody who has had "Travellers" camped on their land will sign this in a heartbeat, as they have in Ireland. 5 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: Not signing it - if you are trespassing and you are asked to leave then you must do so - refusal is aggravated trespass isn't it? which is already illegal? The "Travellers" on the local cricket pitch don't seem to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, bruno22rf said: Not signing it - if you are trespassing and you are asked to leave then you must do so - refusal is aggravated trespass isn't it? which is already illegal? No i don't think it is. Trespass is mostly a civil matter. Unless there is direct or physical interference. 1 minute ago, daveboy said: Anybody who has had "Travellers" camped on their land will sign this in a heartbeat, as they have in Ireland. There are other laws to deal with them and the issue is enforcement rather than the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 (edited) A change in the law will make no difference whatsoever to travellers - it's illegal to drive a vehicle without tax,insurance etc but that never stops them - I'm guessing that parking 20 + caravans on a council grass verge is already illegal yet how many get prosecuted? - you stay 5 minutes over your ticket time in a council car park and you'll be getting a letter through your door pretty smartish.BTW oowee - just asked Google and AT is a criminal offence. Edited October 23, 2019 by bruno22rf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 40 minutes ago, bruno22rf said: A change in the law will make no difference whatsoever to travellers - it's illegal to drive a vehicle without tax,insurance etc but that never stops them - I'm guessing that parking 20 + caravans on a council grass verge is already illegal yet how many get prosecuted? - you stay 5 minutes over your ticket time in a council car park and you'll be getting a letter through your door pretty smartish.BTW oowee - just asked Google and AT is a criminal offence. Aggravated is a criminal offence. To be aggravated is to be obstructing, disrupting or intimidating. Simply refusing to leave would not be aggravated. I only say that because very recently I have had advice from the police on the subject. In this instance they are looking for evidence of aggravation to seize vehicles and was advised that refusing to move was not aggravated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko3275 Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 If it was criminalised there would be hundreds arrested at the back of our house as there are old dairy fields that people walk there dogs round if it was a law they could just be arrested on the spot no need for complaint onless you could prove you had permission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, Jacko3275 said: If it was criminalised there would be hundreds arrested at the back of our house as there are old dairy fields that people walk there dogs round if it was a law they could just be arrested on the spot no need for complaint onless you could prove you had permission Public bridleway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko3275 Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Public bridleway ? There are two public footpaths no bridleways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Just now, Jacko3275 said: There are two public footpaths no bridleways Same difference , provides the non trespass get out clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 There's trespass and then aggravated trespass, there a world apart between some anti trying to entice aggression from someone going along ther legal activity, and you drifting off the boundary line. In court it would be decided if it was intentional or not. Having seen the black vegan numptys going about their so call missions I would like to see them all locked up in a slaughter house for a month with nothing to eat but the contents of the stomachs of pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 Wait till the folk that think it wont affect them start to receive the attention from the anti brigade. For some reason shooters never ever see the picture outside of their own little bubble. The ANTI's are far more committed to stop ALL shooting related sport than shooter are committed to stopping them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 This change in the law is aimed at the "travelling community" who can only be moved off land with a court order which takes some days by which time the land has been covered in rubbish. Living in an area rife with the problem I welcome anything which will stop this abuse and the amount of tax payers money wasted moving them on. I don't think the general public will be inconvenienced and, as previously mentioned, shooters should avoid armed trespass which is already a criminal offence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacko3275 Posted October 23, 2019 Report Share Posted October 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Dougy said: Wait till the folk that think it wont affect them start to receive the attention from the anti brigade. For some reason shooters never ever see the picture outside of their own little bubble. The ANTI's are far more committed to stop ALL shooting related sport than shooter are committed to stopping them. Eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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