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Essex lorry deaths

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7 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

I am told by my mother's carer who is Hungarian that there is a best seller book written in various languages telling Eastern Europeans what benefits they can claim in Britain, which websites to go on, which forms to request and how to fill them in. How to deal with schools, banks etc

we are so stupid

That doesn't surprise me, we likely funded the author to write and publish it, print it and supply lorry loads of them to umpteen countries around the world. My wife was a hospital cleaner who got very friendly with an African cleaner - who was persuaded to come to land of milk and honey with a £40K grant - that was some 15~18 years ago.

 

To be fair about what I think is a possible need for that - our own people, particularly the young would not dream of taking such a job.

Edited by Dave-G

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8 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

By making it completely clear that anybody entering the UK illegally will be deported, no ifs no buts. Back you go. Also make it clear that you will never be allowed re-entry into the UK once deported.

Have you thought this through?

Firstly, anyone entering the UK legally would probably not be able to enter legally in the first place so denying them re-entry isn't much of a deterrent. 

Secondly, so an illegal black person is discovered in the UK by the authorities, no paperwork and refuse to cooperate - where do you deport them to, Africa?

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8 hours ago, Vince Green said:

I am told by my mother's carer who is Hungarian that there is a best seller book written in various languages telling Eastern Europeans what benefits they can claim in Britain, which websites to go on, which forms to request and how to fill them in. How to deal with schools, banks etc

we are so stupid

Can we have the name of book please or ISBN

8 hours ago, Dave-G said:

That doesn't surprise me, we likely funded the author to write and publish it, print it and supply lorry loads of them to umpteen countries around the world. My wife was a hospital cleaner who got very friendly with an African cleaner - who was persuaded to come to land of milk and honey with a £40K grant - that was some 15~18 years ago.

What country was this lady from please?

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7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Have you thought this through?

Firstly, anyone entering the UK legally would probably not be able to enter legally in the first place so denying them re-entry isn't much of a deterrent.

No you missed the deterrent of, no money, no house, no free ride and no prospect of getting any work, because hopefully no one is willing to risk the repercussions of employing them illegally!!!

 

7 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

Have you thought this through?

Secondly, so an illegal black person is discovered in the UK by the authorities, no paperwork and refuse to cooperate - where do you deport them to, Africa?

I'll admit it you may have me on this one.

Maybe put them in detention camps until they decide it's not the 'promised land' and decide they were better off else where.

Or just maybe we increase security at our boarders and stop them at point of entry and deport them back to point of departure. 

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Just now, Newbie to this said:

No you missed the deterrent of, no money, no house, no free ride and no prospect of getting any work, because hopefully no one is willing to risk the repercussions of employing them illegally!!!

 

I'll admit it you may have me on this one.

Maybe put them in detention camps until they decide it's not the 'promised land' and decide they were better off else where.

Or just maybe we increase security at our boarders and stop them at point of entry and deport them back to point of departure. 

The problem is that you can increase security all you want but it won't stop them trying to come. I saw on the news the other day they have even taken to stealing boats. So what happens when they are found out at sea and need rescueing? 

Personally my opinion is to send them back to the countries we know they have come through, I.E. if we know they have come in a lorry from A French port then they are sent back to France. Make it their responsibility to deal with them and make it a deterrent to stop them entering their country. Harder borders along the lines would have of course stopped this, instead a lorry can bring migrants from where ever and they won't meet a border force until the last minute, the UK

Instead we have France allowing large camps of them to stay near to the docks and when they get caught they take them back out the docks to near where they would have been before. But of course the French don't want them so really they want them to come to the UK

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9 hours ago, Vince Green said:

First few years he was looking for work, then he started to play the system and started stacking up the benefits. Rent payed, sickness benefit (bad back) mobility car, attendance allowance etc.

You can’t get a mobility car on Attendance Allowance (AA)

AA doesn’t have a mobility component.

:shaun:

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9 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

By making it completely clear that anybody entering the UK illegally will be deported, no ifs no buts. Back you go. Also make it clear that you will never be allowed re-entry into the UK once deported.

And massively increase the penalties for anyone giving them a job or harbouring them. 20 years should suffice with seizures of assets and revocation of citizenship if originally not a UK national.

Stop the incentive for them to risk their lives to get to the UK illegally.

All the while they see the UK as the 'promised land' things like this tragedy will keep happening.

Illegal immigrants don`t get any benefits in the UK, refugees (usually asylum seekers) do not get main stream benefits but may be eligible for;

Quote

accommodation and/or financial support (“asylum support”) from the Home Office. Cash support for asylum seekers is less generous than social security benefits. (reference here)

They are given dreams of easy money by the traffickers who then turn them into slaves and work them for a pittance, they are threatened with abuse and that their families will suffer too if they don`t work and if they run off or to the police then they will be deported/jailed/tortured....

Human trafficking, slavery and forced labour has a life sentence tarriff.

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8 minutes ago, henry d said:

Illegal immigrants don`t get any benefits in the UK, refugees (usually asylum seekers) do not get main stream benefits but may be eligible for;

What's the difference?

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3 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

What's the difference?

between an illegal immigrant and an asylum seeker?

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There are some deeply unpleasant views aired on here about people dying a horrific slow and lingering death,  the only comparison i can make would be the mobile gas chambers of  WW2, which would be quick by comparison.. yes there is nothing we can do about it but maybe show a little respect for others..😒

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1 hour ago, shaun4860 said:

You can’t get a mobility car on Attendance Allowance (AA)

AA doesn’t have a mobility component.

He had "sciatica" and chronic back pain (allegedly) I'm sure he did, most people get both, its just a question of how far and how hard you want to push it.

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1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

No you missed the deterrent of, no money, no house, no free ride and no prospect of getting any work, because hopefully no one is willing to risk the repercussions of employing them illegally!!!

 

I'll admit it you may have me on this one.

Maybe put them in detention camps until they decide it's not the 'promised land' and decide they were better off else where.

Or just maybe we increase security at our boarders and stop them at point of entry and deport them back to point of departure. 

The issue is, even if we consider them (illegal immigrants) to be criminals our prison system, in a good number of cases, provides them with a better life than where they have come from.

An ex of mine, who remains a very close friend, works for the UNHCR as a Refugee Status Determination Officer so I know a bit about this - although she views me as a partly informed largely ignorant on the subject. I know enough to know it's a complex issue and process.

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10 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

Yes

Google is your friend, go get the information, it`s out there!

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12 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

I'm after your definition. I know my own definition.

Mine is the legal definition, so should yours otherwise it is subjective

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2 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

Secondly, so an illegal black person is discovered in the UK by the authorities, no paperwork and refuse to cooperate - where do you deport them to, Africa?

Israel has an answer to that, they deport them to a third country that they pay to take them. Its somewhere like Chad. 

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6 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Israel has an answer to that, they deport them to a third country that they pay to take them. Its somewhere like Chad. 

Nope, they deport them if they fail asylum there back to their country of origin or, with eriteans and some others (Sudanese?) to Uganda but they also imprison them.

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

Apparently they were Chinese nationals! ........why would Chinese people want to come to the UK?

Persecuted christians? Trafficked slaves... the list is long!

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23 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Apparently they were Chinese nationals! ........why would Chinese people want to come to the UK?

to work in takeaways, cheap labour

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23 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Israel has an answer to that, they deport them to a third country that they pay to take them. Its somewhere like Chad. 

I thought the Israeli's offered three options to what they call infiltrators:

  • $3,500 and a one way ticket home,
  • forced deportation (as you mention though I thought it was Rwanda or Uganda) but maybe they have an agreement with Chad for West Africans,
  • Imprisonment

And from what I understand most choose the latter, perhaps proving that they are indeed more than economic migrants. I also understand that the Israeli policy is not very popular even with their own public.

Muslims aren't exactly having a great time of it in China at the moment.

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12 hours ago, DoolinDalton said:

It's certainly NOT easy OR CHEAP to bring a spouse to the UK, if you've marries abroad.  Without the details, it cost me a lot of money (this was 2006)....that's without the actual wedding costs, including the dozens of bottles of whisky that the father in law gave away to his friends to impress them!  The legal stuff was ridiculous also.  Translation services for my previous divorce certificate and attendance at the British embassy in order to apply for a spouses visa, cost me well over £100, if I remember correctly.  My wife also had to have a certificate stating that she was not infected with TB.  £50, I think, for an x ray + certificate.  The actual 2 year temporary visa was £256. She had to attend a ESOL course and pass an exam, in this country that went towards applying for the indefinite leave to stay visa. And don't forget (those of you that end up marrying a Thai girl or AN other) that you are expected to support your spouses family (and their buffaloes / lorries / chickens, etc.! 

Having said all that, is it any wonder that many, many desperate people risk their lives to come here, with the hope of a better life than the ones they currently have?  That statement doesn't mean that I agree with illegal immigrants coming here...but I can certainly understand why they try it! 

One thing that puzzles me in the present (Brexit) climate...and this isn't from a racist point of view!  Why are there lots of Turks/ Kurds over here at present (mainly opening barber shops) when, afaik, Turkey and Kurdistan aren't in the EU?  Are these people claiming asylum?       

It's more than quadrupled in price since then.

Got married in 2013, 6 years and £6k later my wife finally has IDLR. 

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3 hours ago, henry d said:

Can we have the name of book please or ISBN

What country was this lady from please?

I don't know which specific country in Africa she came from, sorry.

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4 minutes ago, Dave-G said:

I don't know which specific country in Africa she came from, sorry.

Can you find out? Not a thing out there to back it up I'm afraid so it could be a load of tosh the woman was spouting.

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5 minutes ago, henry d said:

Can you find out? Not a thing out there to back it up I'm afraid so it could be a load of tosh the woman was spouting.

Wife had to cease working due to crippling arthritis long ago so has no contact with the lady.

 

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