Jump to content

Medical records


Pistol p
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Scully said:

The only way that our shooting orgs are going to sit up and take notice is if each and every one of us contacts them to say that we will not be renewing, but it won’t happen. 

Quite correct. They will only wake up after shooting in this country is a thing of the past along with them being a thing of the past also The only way to keep something is to fight to keep it something they seem to be quite happy to overlook. 

Edited by bostonmick
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

5 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Then make a complaint against the crime commissioner it is not in their job description to interfere or dictate operational policing policy.

they are also up for re-election next year so you can vote for their P45.

 

A new PCC would be very nice. One with an understanding of country sports would be perfect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, rbrowning2 said:

Then make a complaint against the crime commissioner it is not in their job description to interfere or dictate operational policing policy.

they are also up for re-election next year so you can vote for their P45.

 

Personally I think we would he better off without the pcc taking resources away from general policing. When our current one was up for election he stated his first job would be to get rid of g4s as they were not fit for purpose. Also he said he would put extra into firearms to end the long waiting times for grants and renewal.

Edited by bostonmick
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/11/2019 at 11:44, panoma1 said:

I wasn’t suggesting BASC would wade in and stop the Essex plod, but for the OP to contact them for advice, and their take on Essex’s decision! But realistically, If BASC can’t or won’t do **** all, who will?.......toothless or not? They’re all we got!

Exactly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Clodhopper said:

A new PCC would be very nice. One with an understanding of country sports would be perfect.

I agree they get voted in on very few votes, shame we cannot find pro shooting people to stand for every PCC post, it has been suggested to BASC and ignored that they canvass via the magazine for suitable people, annual pay is not bad minimum £80,000.

Regretfully BASC seam very reluctant to take on the establishment, unlike wild justice who has no such reservations.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/11/2019 at 11:44, panoma1 said:

I wasn’t suggesting BASC would wade in and stop the Essex plod, but for the OP to contact them for advice, and their take on Essex’s decision! But realistically, If BASC can’t or won’t do **** all, who will?.......toothless or not? They’re all we got!

If all we have is an outfit who does nothing then maybe better if they do not exist. Just taking money under false pretences. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

If all we have is an outfit who does nothing then maybe better if they do not exist. Just taking money under false pretences. 

I’d rather have a representative organisation who is accused of doing nothing, than have no representative organisation where we know nothing will be done!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

As long as you feel you are getting value for your money that's fine. 

Value for money is another issue! There are plenty on here who would say they’ve had good service from BASC, myself........the proverbial “curates egg”

But to my mind, any supportive voice is better than no supportive voice!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Value for money is another issue! There are plenty on here who would say they’ve had good service from BASC, myself........the proverbial “curates egg”

But to my mind, any supportive voice is better than no supportive voice!

 

So we have wild justice threatens to take the establishment to court and brings the shooting community to near standstill along with getting a payout from natural England. A business woman takes the government to court and get brexit stopped throwing the whole country into turmoil. Yet basc cannot spend some of our money taking forces to court for creating chaos to law abiding people by casually making their own rules. Even if this action only produced a standardisation of the licensing system it would be better than the lottery we find ourselves in now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, bostonmick said:

So we have wild justice threatens to take the establishment to court and brings the shooting community to near standstill along with getting a payout from natural England. A business woman takes the government to court and get brexit stopped throwing the whole country into turmoil. Yet basc cannot spend some of our money taking forces to court for creating chaos to law abiding people by casually making their own rules. Even if this action only produced a standardisation of the licensing system it would be better than the lottery we find ourselves in now. 

As your examples show, you can only win a case in the courts, if the law has been broken!.......one can only assume BASC’s legal advisers have not identified a viable legal challenge to the issues shooters are currently suffering? So what do you imagine they can do? It seems sensible to me to only pick a fight, when you have a reasonable chance of winning! It does not seem sensible to throw members money at a legal challenge, if BASC’s legal advice is, they can’t reasonably expect to win!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

As your examples show, you can only win a case in the courts, if the law has been broken!.......one can only assume BASC’s legal advisers have not identified a viable legal challenge to the issues shooters are currently suffering? So what do you imagine they can do? It seems sensible to me to only pick a fight, when you have a reasonable chance of winning! It does not seem sensible to throw members money at a legal challenge, if BASC’s legal advice is, they can’t reasonably expect to win!

Home office guidance which should be followed by all. If no reply within 21 days to doctors request then issue certificate. Not make applicant supply doctors l report or don't issue. There was a review a couple of years back which involved the police and home office. And to a lesser extent basc and others. Apart fromthe new charges all other agreements have been binned by police and gmc. We are being discriminated against and that is unlawful. As for the advice basc got to take the political route well that has worked as instead of the two forces that were doing this we now have more joining in every couple of months and all this while a new review is going on. And who is to say that the result of this will be adhered to. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not so sure wild justice expected to win via the GL judicial review in the way they did, but if you do not try you will not know and legal decisions are not necessarily so black and white as boris found out.

I think their is room for a judicial review on the process especially when your own GP will not engage in the process, which is quite common.

Then you are told to use an alternative GP but given the police template letter asks if you have EVER ..... I believe it is impossible for the alternative GP to comply because unless you are a teenager your online Summary Care records are only part of your medical history and only your registered GP will have access to your paper medical records. 

So in theory it is now impossible for you to complete the process.

Don’t take my word for this ask your doctor and talk/phone  NHSdigital and hopefully then you will reach the same conclusion.

Also given some of us already have a marker on our medical records if the process was working any relevant medical condition would have already been notified to the police so for these applicants their is no need for another GP report yet the police will not accept that and refuse to renew without the GP report.

which all goes to show the process is broken and nothing more than a one day in five year MOT so what’s next the police trying for a annual medical report?

Edited by rbrowning2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, lancer425 said:

In defence of the police i think they are realising they are just not up to this firearms licensing caper ,They have the power they need already and in cajoling the GPs into all this its just proving the police are way out of their depth here.

 

 

 

Not sure what power the police actually have to formally gain access to your medical records, court order may be?

you give them your consent on the application form to contact your GP if they do then they have to pay not you, which was the case with HOG2016.

i guess a GP is more likely to respond to an informal request for information from the police. Any such informal request from the police or applicant is outside the GP nhs contract and hence private work chargeable as the GP considers appropriate.

Hence the mess we are in.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be honest there is nothing wrong with the way things should go according to the current home office guidelines. No reply within 21 days assume no medical problem. Doctor is in no way liable as they took no part if they have genuine medical concerns then inform police so again not liable in any way. This is why basc and others should have acted. The political route of writing strongly worded letters to those in authority has and never will achieve anything. The same as when I sent a email with strongly worded content to basc regarding this matter they did not even deem it worthy of a response. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, bostonmick said:

To be honest there is nothing wrong with the way things should go according to the current home office guidelines. No reply within 21 days assume no medical problem. Doctor is in no way liable as they took no part if they have genuine medical concerns then inform police so again not liable in any way. This is why basc and others should have acted. The political route of writing strongly worded letters to those in authority has and never will achieve anything. The same as when I sent a email with strongly worded content to basc regarding this matter they did not even deem it worthy of a response. 

Amen to that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what to do? Everyone decide to not renew BASC subs, BASC starved of funds goes bump, everyone has saved their subs money! Yipeee!.......but shooting has even less of a voice than it has now!..........Sounds like a self inflicted wound to me!

Sounds like a union leader I knew! Called industrial/strike action at the drop of a hat....in the end the business was closed as it couldn’t make a profit! All the employees were made redundant!.......that worked well then! 🤔

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So what to do? Everyone decide to not renew BASC subs, BASC starved of funds goes bump, everyone has saved their subs money! Yipeee!.......but shooting has even less of a voice than it has now!..........Sounds like a self inflicted wound to me!

Sounds like a union leader I knew! Called industrial/strike action at the drop of a hat....in the end the business was closed as it couldn’t make a profit! All the employees were made redundant!.......that worked well then! 🤔

I would rather they (BASC) got their act together and did something, that is why I am a bitter EX-Member!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I would rather they (BASC) got their act together and did something, that is why I am a bitter EX-Member!

I don’t disagree Dave! It would be a step in the right direction if BASC explained why they couldn’t, or chose not to take action in specific circumstances, rather than let people speculate! Because if you don’t bother to explain.....people will usually think the worst!.....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

So what to do? Everyone decide to not renew BASC subs, BASC starved of funds goes bump, everyone has saved their subs money! Yipeee!.......but shooting has even less of a voice than it has now!..........Sounds like a self inflicted wound to me!

Sounds like a union leader I knew! Called industrial/strike action at the drop of a hat....in the end the business was closed as it couldn’t make a profit! All the employees were made redundant!.......that worked well then! 🤔

I don't think people want to see basc go bump as you say however if they carry on just taking the cash and doing sweet fa for it then shooting will go bump. Police chiefs would not want to spend vast sums of their budgets defending a case where they are not following the lines set by the home office. One force sets the ball rolling and see no resistance do all the others think why not. It's the members who are suffering and its the members money laying idle in their bank account and the question has to be if not to fight for members why is it there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 01/11/2019 at 20:13, Pistol p said:

I've just been informed that as of today Essex police will require medical records for those applying or reapplying for a firearm or shotgun certificate. Can anybody clarify this?

BASC, We are strongly opposed to the actions of these police forces and we are challenging these policy changes. Whilst we are working hard to find a political solution we reserve the right to take legal action as and when appropriatehttps://basc.org.uk/med/

BMA, The proper regulation of firearms is in the public interest and it is important that you respond to the initial police letter. You should not disregard the letter, nor delay in providing a reply (you should normally respond to the letter within 21 days). Failure to respond could put you at professional risk….https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/ethics/ethics-a-to-z/firearms
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, old'un said:

BASC, We are strongly opposed to the actions of these police forces and we are challenging these policy changes. Whilst we are working hard to find a political solution we reserve the right to take legal action as and when appropriatehttps://basc.org.uk/med/

 

 

BMA, The proper regulation of firearms is in the public interest and it is important that you respond to the initial police letter. You should not disregard the letter, nor delay in providing a reply (you should normally respond to the letter within 21 days). Failure to respond could put you at professional risk….https://www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/ethics/ethics-a-to-z/firearms

BASC, when appropriate, just how many more forces have to opt for mandatory medical reporting before basc consider it is now appropriate? All words no action.

BMA, note it states respond to the initial POLICE letter, not the applicant so it is irrelevant.

BMA also say

On receiving a letter from the police, depending on your professional and/or ethical position, you may decide to respond by stating one of the following:- (sample letters are offered):

  • I refuse to provide a report because I have a conscientious objection to the holding of firearms. (Sample Letter 1)
  • I refuse to provide the requested report, because it seeks an opinion on matters falling outside my medical expertise, namely assessment of behavioural and personality disorders. (Sample Letter 2)

 

Edited by rbrowning2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, rbrowning2 said:

BASC, when appropriate, just how many more forces have to opt for mandatory medical reporting before basc consider it is now appropriate?

I have personal experience of this, as I live in a county where a GPs report is mandatory. This lead to me having to change Medical Practices as my previous GP had a practice policy of not responding to Police requests for info and would not produce the required letter. Prior to starting the renewal process I spoke to BASC by email and also at some length at the Game Fair. While I was advised of the lobbying being undertaken behind the scenes over the medical report requirement, they admitted that I was trapped between a rock and a hard place and there was little they could do if I wanted to retain my licence. Not what I wanted to hear, but I accept the limitations they have over this. Chief Constables have played the Public Safety card over the requirement for a GPs report, and the Home Office and our ineffective politicians are not going to over rule the Police on this. Challenge the Chief Constable over this or his buddy the Crime Commisioner and you will get the Public Safety requirement thrown at you.

Having changed GPs and started the renewal process, I had my FEO visit last week. In casual conversation he advised me that he expected to see the mandatory requirement for a GPs report to be the norm with all county forces over the next 12 months. He also advised that there is discussion between the Home Office and the various medical bodies concerning the agreement over the max fee`s that GPs are permitted to charge. The Home Office has apparently already agreed that any charges raised by the GP for providing the medical report are to be paid for by the applicant.

Make no bones about it guys, this requirement is here to stay and will apply to you all in the not to distant future !

Slagging off BASC is not going to change anything, you are better off spending your time making sure you GP will produce the necessary when required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...