Extreme pheasant shooting

[Bazooka Joe]

17 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Breaking a brittle clay and killing a bird are 2 very different things, for a start the clay won't carry on and die in pain from being pricked due to a careless shot at a silly range. 

It's clear from this thread that there are a few that simple don't care about what's sporting or humane and just want bragging rights. 

Not my cup of tea. 

Have to agree with you, definitely not for me.

80yd shot is on a wing & a prayer.

This copy'paste sums it up nicely from the link posted, the ratio at the end is on about par with what's been said above.

Quote

A full choked gun would create a shot column approximately 20ft long at 80 yards distance. The last pellets in the column would only reach the target approximately four hundreds of one second after the first pellets. In four hundredths of one second, a bird flying at 40mph or 700 inches per second would have travelled approximately 28 inches and it would have almost cleared the 30” circle, making any strike unlikely. Neither the bird nor the pellets can be in two places at the same time. The last pellets in the column would only arrive after the bird has passed. Possibly this is why some of these extreme bird shoots only average a shot to kill ratio of 10:1 or worse.

 

[Perazzishot]

22 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Breaking a brittle clay and killing a bird are 2 very different things, for a start the clay won't carry on and die in pain from being pricked due to a careless shot at a silly range. 

It's clear from this thread that there are a few that simple don't care about what's sporting or humane and just want bragging rights. 

Not my cup of tea. 

You sir are either the best shot in the World

Only ever play computer games

Or have the best gun dogs in the world.

 

 

Because that is the only 3 options you have on being able to shoot and not ever ***** and not retrieve a bird at any range.

[Penelope]

On 13/11/2019 at 22:06, rbrowning2 said:

On a positive note and leaving aside extreme vs high birds, is that given the challenges shooting is facing these days to move away from toxic lead shot and plastic wads to non-toxic shot used within environment friendly plastic or fibre wads, 

we all need the not insignificant amount of money the likes of perrazzishot spend on game shooting to ensure all shooting sports can continue at a price we can all afford, because i think it will be game shooting money within the cartridge industry which will drive forward new initiatives that hopefully will benefit all shooting.

we already have one supermarket saying from next season they will only sell game shot with non-toxic shot and you can bet where one goes the rest will follow.  And game shooting is only justified if the shot game enters the food chain and exporting lead shot game will not go unchallenged if it is unacceptable for domestic consumption.

Then the EU are debating on banning all lead from shot and ammunition. And finally you have the likes of wild justice calling for a ban on lead shot, a ban on driven grouse shooting and a review of releasing non native pheasants into the countryside and soon the GLs will be again on their agenda.

like it or not the future is far from certain.

 

 

 

The same supermarket that stopped shooting on the estate it acquired when it took over John Lewis.

[CharlieT]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Have to agree with you, definitely not for me.

80yd shot is on a wing & a prayer.

This sums it up nicely from the link posted, the ratio at the end is on about par with what's been said above.

A full choked gun would create a shot column approximately 20ft long at 80 yards distance. The last pellets in the column would only reach the target approximately four hundreds of one second after the first pellets. In four hundredths of one second, a bird flying at 40mph or 700 inches per second would have travelled approximately 28 inches and it would have almost cleared the 30” circle, making any strike unlikely. Neither the bird nor the pellets can be in two places at the same time. The last pellets in the column would only arrive after the bird has passed. Possibly this is why some of these extreme bird shoots only average a shot to kill ratio of 10:1 or worse.

I know little about such things, but isn't that why we are taught to keep swinging the gun after pulling the trigger so that as much as humanly possible of the shot column reaches the target.

[andrewluke]

15 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

I know little about such things, but isn't that why we are taught to keep swinging the gun after pulling the trigger so that as much as humanly possible of the shot column reaches the target.

i would have thought that the shot leaves the barrel in a ball so to keep swinging the gun will not affect the string

[motty]

28 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

I know little about such things, but isn't that why we are taught to keep swinging the gun after pulling the trigger so that as much as humanly possible of the shot column reaches the target.

You've lost me here. Swinging the gun won't "paint a line of shot across the sky". It all comes out together. Any swing is far too slow to affect the shot in any way.

[Smokersmith]

100%

There’s a nice video on YouTube from Gil Ash that proves this.

[welshwarrior]

18 hours ago, andrewluke said:

i would have thought that the shot leaves the barrel in a ball so to keep swinging the gun will not affect the string

you’re  taught to keep swing the gun so you don’t stop the barrels as you fire and miss behind.  The swing does not spread the shot. 
 

apologies picked up the wrong quote.  Comment edit to try and make more sense

Edited November 15, 2019 by welshwarrior

[Hamster]

I just hope these extreme experts don’t come on our clay comps, they’re sure to clean up. I mean if you can consistently kill a pheasant at 70-85 yards with next to no shots in your pattern, you’d be poleaxing hapless clays at ranges where there are upwards of 250 pellets in a smallish cluster. 

Come to think of it perhaps PigeonWatch could organise a day 🤤 got a feeling our chaps will suddenly have prior engagements 🤪.

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

Not at all your taught to keep swing the gun so you don’t stop the barrels as you fire and miss behind.  

This is sort of linked to the erroneous hose pipe effect.

With 36g of No 3s through 3/4 choke the BRL measured the shot string at some 55 yards to be over 24ft long (50 metres and 7.4 metres respectively)

[grrclark]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

I just hope these extreme experts don’t come on our clay comps, they’re sure to clean up. I mean if you can consistently kill a pheasant at 70-85 yards with next to no shots in your pattern, you’d be poleaxing hapless clays at ranges where there are upwards of 250 pellets in a smallish cluster. 

Come to think of it perhaps PigeonWatch could organise a day 🤤 got a feeling our chaps will suddenly have prior engagements 🤪.

Very mischievous Hamid 🤣

[stu64]

My local church tower is 120 feet high-40 yards. seagulls and pigeons look pretty damned small sat up there. I think some people get feet and yards mixed up....😄

[Smokersmith]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

 

I just hope these extreme experts don’t come on our clay comps, they’re sure to clean up. 

 

Many of them do ...

[andrewluke]

3 hours ago, welshwarrior said:

Not at all your taught to keep swing the gun so you don’t stop the barrels as you fire and miss behind.  

so swinging the gun affects the shot string???

[wymberley]

11 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

so swinging the gun affects the shot string???

No, not at all. Think we all had too many double negatives there. We're all on the same wavelength and what you described earlier is correct.

[Hamster]

20 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Many of them do ...

I know ! Isn’t it amazing then that they have the gall to say it is their “skill” that’s the reason for those 80 yarders 🙄 tumbling down dead in the air yet they very rarely manage to win a shoot with 90% of the targets inside 40 yards, some of them don’t win their class more than once in a while ! 

I suppose it’s like ESP shooters who say they can’t hit Skeet targets coz they’re too close. 

[JDog]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

I know ! Isn’t it amazing then that they have the gall to say it is their “skill” that’s the reason for those 80 yarders 🙄 tumbling down dead in the air yet they very rarely manage to win a shoot with 90% of the targets inside 40 yards, some of them don’t win their class more than once in a while ! 

I suppose it’s like ESP shooters who say they can’t hit Skeet targets coz they’re too close. 

This post is interesting in itself but would be more so with some names. I dare you.

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, Hamster said:

I know ! Isn’t it amazing then that they have the gall to say it is their “skill” that’s the reason for those 80 yarders 🙄 tumbling down dead in the air yet they very rarely manage to win a shoot with 90% of the targets inside 40 yards, some of them don’t win their class more than once in a while ! 

I suppose it’s like ESP shooters who say they can’t hit Skeet targets coz they’re too close. 

Absolutely! 

I sometimes get people come up to me after a shoot, and say something like. 

'It was a bit too easy today' 

I reply ' Oh so you cleared it then, 100 %?' 

'Err no, got 27 ex 34...' 

In the 7 years I've been setting that course, no one has ever cleared it. 

[Hamster]

50 minutes ago, JDog said:

This post is interesting in itself but would be more so with some names. I dare you.

😂🤣😆 I’m not that mischievous, I seem to recall from last year that one identified himself as either B or A class which doesn’t bode well for field prowess, another is a genuinely great field shot and handy enough on clays but really the point is quite simple : “skill” in fetching dooooon 85 yard birds just HAS to mean you barely miss anything inside 45 yards. 

After a lifetime of shooting, thinking critically about my game (and shortcomings) almost every day, utilising every mechanical trick in the book to give me an advantage, learning different methods, controlling my head, etc, etc, etc,............my own average stands at 88% which is miraculously inside AAA and yet I wouldn’t dream of claiming I could consistently kill driven pheasants at even a miserly 75 yards ! 

24 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Absolutely! 

I sometimes get people come up to me after a shoot, and say something like. 

'It was a bit too easy today' 

I reply ' Oh so you cleared it then, 100 %?' 

'Err no, got 27 ex 34...' 

In the 7 years I've been setting that course, no one has ever cleared it. 

Yes “shoots are too soft these days” is a common enough one liner, what’s yer average usually stops the conversation, oddly enough the genuinely very best rarely seem to moan about soft targets. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Hamster

[grrclark]

17 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Yes “shoots are too soft these days” is a common enough one liner, what’s yer average usually stops the conversation, oddly enough the genuinely very best rarely seem to moan about soft targets. 

Those genuinely at the top of the tree just shoot what’s there all the same and do it consistently every time.

On a soft shoot they might complain there is little room for clawback if they make a mistake, but they accept it is their mistake.

They might say targets are edgy, but still just shoot them anyway.

And if they have a bad day they don’t scratch cards or hide away, just accept they had a bad day and move on.

Compare that with so many aspirants, blame everything but themselves.

[lancer425]

I think what we are seeing here on this thread is clear unquestionable evidence that there are a lot of sensible shooters out there, but there are a few who have a very poor grasp of real range estimation 😀.

 

[Perazzishot]

The bottom line that needs to be understood is that birds will be pricked whether at 25 yards (saw it today time after time shot after shot by guns who had no idea) or at 70 yards.

However the picker ups on the large commercial high bird shoots try harder to recover every bird.

The shoot I was on today had 2 pickers up with 3 dogs between them. They spent all their time picking up behind the guns with no effort made for the pricked birds.

Clays can provide nothing like the flight or speed of a pheasant or a partridge, and technical, loopers, going aways are nothing like a high driven so not a worthwhile comparison, and as grrclark will confirm a lot of very good competent A Class Shooters (no names) struggle immensely with driven clay targets so the comparison is null and void.

The rest of the debate is going round in circles. Enjoy YOUR shooting enjoy your weekend. Straight Powder everyone!

[andrewluke]

2 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

The bottom line that needs to be understood is that birds will be pricked whether at 25 yards (saw it today time after time shot after shot by guns who had no idea) or at 70 yards.

However the picker ups on the large commercial high bird shoots try harder to recover every bird.

The shoot I was on today had 2 pickers up with 3 dogs between them. They spent all their time picking up behind the guns with no effort made for the pricked birds.

Clays can provide nothing like the flight or speed of a pheasant or a partridge, and technical, loopers, going aways are nothing like a high driven so not a worthwhile comparison, and as grrclark will confirm a lot of very good competent A Class Shooters (no names) struggle immensely with driven clay targets so the comparison is null and void.

The rest of the debate is going round in circles. Enjoy YOUR shooting enjoy your weekend. Straight Powder everyone!

are you saying that a 70-80yd clay is an easier target than pheasant/partridge at the same range?

[CharlieT]

2 hours ago, lancer425 said:

I think what we are seeing here on this thread is clear unquestionable evidence that there are a lot of sensible shooters out there, but there are a few who have a very poor grasp of real range estimation 😀.

 

What you and many others seem to have failed to grasp is that fact that high bird shoots, because of their topography, are able to present birds at distances in excess of 50 yards and as far as 100 yards +.

We, as a high bird shoot, do not expect or indeed condone guns addressing birds at distances above which a clean kill is not achievable by a competent shot.

The majority of our highest birds are taken at 60 -65 yards, although some of the birds presented are in excess of 30 yards above this, some even higher. It is the responsibility of guns to be selective and only address birds at a distance they can ensure a clean kill. After all, no responsible sportsman pulls the trigger at a bird they are not confident of killing.

All the detractors should buy a high bird day once in their life, pick the birds you are happy with and see what it's all about, you will be pleasantly surprised and will certainly enjoy your day watching guns address and cleanly kill some amazing birds rather than criticizing and scoffing at something you have no experience of.

[andrewluke]

5 minutes ago, CharlieT said:

What you and many others seem to have failed to grasp is that fact that high bird shoots, because of their topography, are able to present birds at distances in excess of 50 yards and as far as 100 yards +.

We, as a high bird shoot, do not expect or indeed condone guns addressing birds at distances above which a clean kill is not achievable by a competent shot.

The majority of our highest birds are taken at 60 -65 yards, although some of the birds presented are in excess of 30 yards above this, some even higher. It is the responsibility of guns to be selective and only address birds at a distance they can ensure a clean kill. After all, no responsible sportsman pulls the trigger at a bird they are not confident of killing.

All the detractors should buy a high bird day once in their life, pick the birds you are happy with and see what it's all about, you will be pleasantly surprised and will certainly enjoy your day watching guns address and cleanly kill some amazing birds rather than criticizing and scoffing at something you have no experience of.

what would you say would be an acceptable cartridge/kill ratio