Extreme pheasant shooting

[andrewluke]

5 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

who said that? Not me I'm not that naive I've already stated the pickers up work a lot harder with big teams of dogs to recover all the birds as they are worth £60 in the game cart.

Not worth so much on smaller farm/syndicate/commercial shoots where you have to pay 50p to dispose of them.

 

At 80 yards it’s kill or miss

Let’s assume that with the right choice of tightly choked, long-barrelled gun and a 32gram No.4 cartridge containing 160 pellets we can achieve an acceptable pattern (i.e. 120 pellets in a 30 inch circle at 80 yards). If the bird is in the centre of the pattern it is almost certain to be hit by four or more pellets and so a clean kill will be the result. A near miss potentially resulting in a wounded bird will occur when the bird is at the edge or just outside the central pattern but, because there are very few pellets in this outer region, there won’t be that many wounded birds. It is either going to be a clean kill or a miss. The experts who regularly shoot birds at this range will confirm this. If we can use a 36gram (180 pellets) or even a 42gram (210 pellets) cartridge and still get the required pattern, the extra pellets will increase our chances of a hit. Of course a heavier load does mean more recoil.

Read more at https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/uncategorized/best-shotgun-cartridge-hitting-high-birds-40056#VlriwyjfWecPRguD.99

[Dave at kelton]

Nobody I believe has said birds are not pricked and it is my job to make sure they are picked and despatched. This does emphasise the point that many guns have no idea what they do in fact hit. Take a recent partridge drive when I stood 100 yds behind the guns and we had two pickers up 500 yards back. The guns were okay but not A team and birds were probably at 40 yards max. Nearly all guns were using traditional SxS and normal game loads. I could see Partridges taking shot and heading back down the valley to our back teams. About 8 of us worked hard and cleared the ground as best we could. When we add the birds to the cart the guns accuse us of pegging birds and want them taken off the bag. Now that can happen early season but by November with strong birds and little cover it is unlikely. You just can’t win; moderate guns, shooting traditionally, no extreme ranges and pickers up doing their job.

[Perazzishot]

22 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

At 80 yards it’s kill or miss

Let’s assume that with the right choice of tightly choked, long-barrelled gun and a 32gram No.4 cartridge containing 160 pellets we can achieve an acceptable pattern (i.e. 120 pellets in a 30 inch circle at 80 yards). If the bird is in the centre of the pattern it is almost certain to be hit by four or more pellets and so a clean kill will be the result. A near miss potentially resulting in a wounded bird will occur when the bird is at the edge or just outside the central pattern but, because there are very few pellets in this outer region, there won’t be that many wounded birds. It is either going to be a clean kill or a miss. The experts who regularly shoot birds at this range will confirm this. If we can use a 36gram (180 pellets) or even a 42gram (210 pellets) cartridge and still get the required pattern, the extra pellets will increase our chances of a hit. Of course a heavier load does mean more recoil.

Read more at https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/uncategorized/best-shotgun-cartridge-hitting-high-birds-40056#VlriwyjfWecPRguD.99

I didn't write that

[JJsDad]

42 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

(i.e. 120 pellets in a 30 inch circle at 80 yards).

 

Your assumptions suggest a 75% pattern at 80 yards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 22, 2019 by JJsDad

[GingerCat]

How long that guys barrel to only lose 40 pellets over 80 metres? 50 metres long  or something, he'd need a crane to lift it. 

Every duck/goose/Turkey shooter  in the world must want to know the choke he uses.

 

[andrewluke]

6 minutes ago, JJsDad said:

 

Your assumptions suggest a 75% pattern at 80 yards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that's not my assumption ,it's from the link i posted

[GingerCat]

Another article takes it apart and throws it in the bin. If you could achieve that pattern density consistently at that range then everyone would be doing it, from rabbits to pigeons and everything else. 

Imagine shooting rabbits at 80 yards with a shotgun! No one claims to do it for obvious reasons, a pheasant at that range is no different (except of course with carts handloaded by Dumbledore in his hogwarts office perhaps). 

[lancer425]

Very first thing i do with any new  pass shooting load, is pattern it at at 40 yard, and if its not putting at least 80% of the shot charge inside 30 inch at 40 yards i deem it not worth any more of my  time or attention.

If its 80% or above i will look at it further and start working on it from there.

40 yards is a long way 60 a very long way once you start looking at the patterns and thus pellet counts at these ranges you bstart to see exactly what is really needed for 80 yards.

This video is just patterning factory turkey hunting ammo but its using one of the best ever chokes for tight patterns at long range,.

from about 20.60 in on this video its on TSS 9s at 70 yards through the indian creek 660. This kind of puts into perspective what might have a chance of doing an 80 yard phesant. but the choke constriction is evil and no margin for any error on a flying target. its a  lot to get right. but it must start with the load /gun/ choke.

It has to be this way to cleanly kill.

Even the guy in the video talks of ethics of long range on what are effectively stationary targetts with 660 choke tubes.

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by lancer425

[wymberley]

1 hour ago, GingerCat said:

Another article takes it apart and throws it in the bin. If you could achieve that pattern density consistently at that range then everyone would be doing it, from rabbits to pigeons and everything else. 

Imagine shooting rabbits at 80 yards with a shotgun! No one claims to do it for obvious reasons, a pheasant at that range is no different (except of course with carts handloaded by Dumbledore in his hogwarts office perhaps). 

I bet every other shooting magazine was laughing behind the Gazette's back and giving thanks that the plonker wasn't writing for them.

[London Best]

31 minutes ago, wymberley said:

I bet every other shooting magazine was laughing behind the Gazette's back and giving thanks that the plonker wasn't writing for them.

You would think (hope) that submitted articles are proof read before publishing. If they are, it begs the question whether the reader/anyone at the magazine knows what they are talking about. I cancelled the Gazette shortly after this article.

[Stonepark]

3 hours ago, andrewluke said:

Read more at https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/uncategorized/best-shotgun-cartridge-hitting-high-birds-40056#VlriwyjfWecPRguD.99

 

A lovely inaccurate cherry picking of facts article, full of unsupported and unsubstantiated, speculative fantasy, and for anyone who believes it, I have a bridge in London to sell you.....

[andrewluke]

9 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

A lovely inaccurate cherry picking of facts article, full of unsupported and unsubstantiated, speculative fantasy, and for anyone who believes it, I have a bridge in London to sell you.....

sure is

[islandgun]

10 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

 

A lovely inaccurate cherry picking of facts article, full of unsupported and unsubstantiated, speculative fantasy, and for anyone who believes it, I have a bridge in London to sell you.....

how much for the bridge ?

[Perazzishot]

14 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/uncategorized/best-shotgun-cartridge-hitting-high-birds-40056#VlriwyjfWecPRguD.99

👏👏👏

Those who can't deride those who can do. 

Anyone know who wrote that article?

[wymberley]

20 minutes ago, London Best said:

You would think (hope) that submitted articles are proof read before publishing. If they are, it begs the question whether the reader/anyone at the magazine knows what they are talking about. I cancelled the Gazette shortly after this article.

I didn't last anywhere near that. Took it when it first came out but soon realised it was a sort of reverse vanity publication whereby it was nonchalantly placed on the coffee table with the group photo which you were in prominently positioned. Unfortunately, it seemed that I obviously mixed with the "out crowd".

[Stonepark]

37 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

👏👏👏

Those who can't deride those who can do. 

Anyone know who wrote that article?

Says at top Frank Morgan.

45 minutes ago, islandgun said:

how much for the bridge ?

I am afraid due t the London market being highly speculative, I can't let you have it for anything less than £1,000,000,000.  😉

 

[gotgcoalman]

I was given a random carrier bag of cartridges by an old chap who has given up shooting.

So,I had a rummage and decided after following this thread.

High brass kills.

So take your pick as we have 3. 

The Roma I'd be a bit dubious of although the other yellow 1 has high bird on it and the third is a winchester 

so it must be good.

The Eley claims "maximum long range" so it's automatically better.

But.

The Record  is the one.

They used to be like using dynamite to catch fish.

 

[lancer425]

The Baikals worked well and were cheap, another cartridge i used a lot back then were the gartorp paper cased things they were good in my Remington 1100 but my A5 magnum would not cycle them. the records were the ones to use in the A5.

[GingerCat]

24 minutes ago, gotgcoalman said:

I was given a random carrier bag of cartridges by an old chap who has given up shooting.

So,I had a rummage and decided after following this thread.

High brass kills.

So take your pick as we have 3. 

The Roma I'd be a bit dubious of although the other yellow 1 has high bird on it and the third is a winchester 

so it must be good.

The Eley claims "maximum long range" so it's automatically better.

But.

The Record  is the one.

They used to be like using dynamite to catch fish.

 

Higher the brass and the more the day costs = the further you can kill birds and the more willy waving you can do. Simples.

 If it was a £70 slab of 32g no 6 then you'd be limited to 30 yard decoying like all the other  mortals. 

If anyone doubts how far the kills are post random vids and quote anonymous mates who back you up and mention how much you spend "in the field" to hope the mortals go away never to doubt you 100 yard abilities again, they drive x trails after all.

[Perazzishot]

13 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

Higher the brass and the more the day costs = the further you can kill birds and the more willy waving you can do. Simples.

 If it was a £70 slab of 32g no 6 then you'd be limited to 30 yard decoying like all the other  mortals. 

If anyone doubts how far the kills are post random vids and quote anonymous mates who back you up and mention how much you spend "in the field" to hope the mortals go away never to doubt you 100 yard abilities again, they drive x trails after all.

And there you finally have the synopsis of why it can't be done (in your eyes) because YOU  can't afford it! 

That is far and away nothing to do with what any of this is about, but you sir have just taken it down to lowest common denominator in the whole argument.

I'll tell you now if I stopped being able to afford it tomorrow I'd go back to shooting pigeons and have no regrets, as said I've shot all my life at what gives me pleasure from being in a mud gulley on the foreshore at 4am, in a pigeon hide or ferreting for rats and rabbits, been there done it all and still do all the aforementioned when I have time. I remember saving my pocket money up to buy a box of marksman pellets, or 25 cartridges (bailkal Records as mentioned above).

This certainly is not a class/money argument! 

Go and find an 80 yard pigeon flight line shoot it 3 times a week and within a month your average will improve, within 2 years you will be confident and be shooting and killing them on a good ratio. It won't cost you a single penny more than what you pay now. 

Do yourself a favour though and don't come on here and say you can do it because everybody will tell you you're talking sh*te and demand a photo of a pattern plate to prove their point 😂

 

 

 

[GingerCat]

39 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

And there you finally have the synopsis of why it can't be done (in your eyes) because YOU  can't afford it! 

That is far and away nothing to do with what any of this is about, but you sir have just taken it down to lowest common denominator in the whole argument.

I'll tell you now if I stopped being able to afford it tomorrow I'd go back to shooting pigeons and have no regrets, as said I've shot all my life at what gives me pleasure from being in a mud gulley on the foreshore at 4am, in a pigeon hide or ferreting for rats and rabbits, been there done it all and still do all the aforementioned when I have time. I remember saving my pocket money up to buy a box of marksman pellets, or 25 cartridges (bailkal Records as mentioned above).

This certainly is not a class/money argument! 

Go and find an 80 yard pigeon flight line shoot it 3 times a week and within a month your average will improve, within 2 years you will be confident and be shooting and killing them on a good ratio. It won't cost you a single penny more than what you pay now. 

Do yourself a favour though and don't come on here and say you can do it because everybody will tell you you're talking sh*te and demand a photo of a pattern plate to prove their point 😂

 

 

 

I can afford it, I choose not to, and I wouldnt shoot 80 yard birds if I did. I don't come on here bragging about the £000s I've spent in the field. Look in the mirror. 

[lancer425]

36 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

 

Go and find an 80 yard pigeon flight line shoot it 3 times a week and within a month your average will improve, within 2 years you will be confident and be shooting and killing them on a good ratio. It won't cost you a single penny more than what you pay now. 

Do yourself a favour though and don't come on here and say you can do it because everybody will tell you you're talking sh*te and demand a photo of a pattern plate to prove their point 😂

 

 

 

You so love yourself it is sad t0o see. how do you get so in love with yourself.

Offering advice when you clearly do not know your rear from first base.

Presuming none of us have not already been and IMPROVED our Averages.

Sweeping inaccurate comments with zero facts on the whole thread and yet holding on to a futile stupid opinion based on your and others shortfalls around the very subject you are  basing your alleged prowess on.

Pathetic! you do really need to get a grip on reality and start to consider what is being said to you here for if nothing more the birds you are shooting.

You are so full of pride delusional ill informed inexperienced and all in all a very sad individual indeed.

You have nothing to offer this thread other than your own self appraisal, no science no knowledge no background and no evidence.

You can not provide any evidence because you dont know anything about what you are doing with regards these high birds.

Its the shotgun equivalent of walking a ,22 rimfire on to a 200 yard rabbit and and calling that gun a 200 yard gun.

Its not flash its not clever and its not sport, and do not go lumping your self in with the likes of dave carrie etc. he states in more than one of his videos no way he advocates the shooting of live game over 50 or 60 yards.

The same as any other person who has a grip on reality.

 

 

 

[lancer425]

23 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

I can afford it, I choose not to, and I wouldnt shoot 80 yard birds if I did. I don't come on here bragging about the £000s I've spent in the field. Look in the mirror. 

Do not waste your time challenging this individual any more, he and his ilk are not worthy of your time, they lack any kind of standards regarding respect for game and have no idea what they are doing. its sad to see i know, but there you go they simply do not care as long as a few come down that will do, pickers up can sort out the cripples or not as the case may be.

Every hunting sport as some eliment of risk regarding wounding, but most restrict ranges to a distance their weopons can reliably kill at in this case we are talking shotguns, which are ok with suitable loads to about 50 or 60 yards in the case of 12ga and the type of game involved.

If you are needing to consistently kill bigger birds or extend the range a little as in a couple of yards then bigger loads bigger guns or perhaps both and other things need to be employed to stay humane.

[Smokersmith]

Deadlock!

P'shot knows that he's out many times a week enjoying knocking down very high birds, and that as his team practice, they get better.

The rest know that at the ranges discussed, patterns fail, and the reliability of hitting the target with a well placed shot becomes one of luck.

The more you practice, the luckier you get .. and I believe both skill and luck are needed to kill this high stuff.

On the moral scale .. what's worse, a skilled shot stretching himself and relying on luck at distance with a skilled team of pickers up, or a poor shot blasting away at 20-30 yard stuff and back ending a few with no effort to pick up? Both happen.

From someone who's both patterned home/factory loads in many bore sizes to know what's possible; and been on half a dozen extreme days, fluked a few high ones, missed a lot more, and decided to pull back a bit on range … less shots, more dead.

[grrclark]

14 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

Deadlock!

P'shot knows that he's out many times a week enjoying knocking down very high birds, and that as his team practice, they get better.

The rest know that at the ranges discussed, patterns fail, and the reliability of hitting the target with a well placed shot becomes one of luck.

The more you practice, the luckier you get .. and I believe both skill and luck are needed to kill this high stuff.

On the moral scale .. what's worse, a skilled shot stretching himself and relying on luck at distance with a skilled team of pickers up, or a poor shot blasting away at 20-30 yard stuff and back ending a few with no effort to pick up? Both happen.

Good summary and ties in with my thinking too.