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Extreme pheasant shooting


B725
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I feel a bit sad adding some oil to this fire after the original protagonists have left. In the case of Hamster, left us for good.

However I've been thinking about patterning, and how it might not be the best way to measure distribution especially at the end of the pellet range, where gravity has such a large impact. We all know that the pellets will start dropping significantly pretty soon -- and that effect is directly related to mostly the pellet size and it's velocity; that's why there *is* a shot string and not just a 2D shot "plate" -- not pellet are formed and energised equally.


However, gravity has on one side more impact on speed, and LESS on dispersion when shoot upward. I shoot my .22 airgun off the shoulder at stuff in trees all the time, and the amount of "offset" I need to apply from 45 degrees to 65 degrees is huge.

So, my point is, is there a case to consider that the pattern could be more "compact" longer when shooting upward?

Also, second point, is there a case where a bird flying at 30+mph hitting a pellet (even stationary pellet!) might get some pretty serious hit from it? I've picked a roadkill pheasant earlier, on a piece of road that can't possibly have car going over 30mph and it had massive wounds. In that case the pheasant didn't move a lot, and the car was doing <30mph. Sure, larger surface area etc etc but it's similar to taking a small stone in your windscreen... even at low speed, you can get a very serious wack.

What I'm saying is, for all the people who claim to kill many very high birds, /outside/ what we would normally consider in the realm of physics for pellets, perhaps there is a case to say that a bit of vectorial math is in order. Perhaps the shot "column" is more compact, and also perhaps the birds don't help themselves hitting a (loose) cloud of pellets at "high speed".

I'm not saying all that to advocate anything mind you, far from it, I'm definitely more into the 26g #6 SxS shooter here, but I'm also an engineer, and I'd like to understand the huge gap between "oh no you can't" and the "of course we do" camps, while removing the obvious "oh but you can't see sheeeeeet anyway".

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13 hours ago, Shotkam said:

Thanks for taking the trouble to input all your data, which was certainly interesting. 

I plan to get on the pattern plate when the wind picks up with both those loads and if anyone is interested I will post my findings.

All good then - What is really a key factor is pattern failing before energy or vise versa.

Find a load that is close to having the 2 matching sounds ideal.

Back along when there wasn't the choice of cartridges that there now is - although it must be said you could get 6&1/2s and 7s :innocent: - this wasn't so easy. Choosing the energy to fail just prior the the pattern could have resulted in insufficient penetration - the so called pricked birds. Consequently, the reverse was the preferred choice as the bird may well have been sufficiently hard hit to bring it down, but with not just enough strikes for a clean kill.

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35 minutes ago, London Best said:

Buze, have you calculated the ft lbs energy your roadkill pheasant may have received from a single strike from a car weighing perhaps 1 1/2 tons?

Stuck in waiting to see the medics so,

Energy (ftlbs): 101088.96

Penetration: Into radiator grille 4.199"

Total Impact Velocity 30mph - pheasant crossing

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34 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Stuck in waiting to see the medics so,

Energy (ftlbs): 101088.96

Penetration: Into radiator grille 4.199"

Total Impact Velocity 30mph - pheasant crossing

Thanks for taking the time to do that. I have actually done it before and remembered it was around 100,000ftlbs. I just wondered if Buze had ever done it as he states his road kill had “ massive wounds”. Why are we not surprised?

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14 hours ago, Shotkam said:

I use 1.2m wide white paper, which allows me to compare results side by side that I sometimes find useful.

With the cost of cartridges having risen 20% over the last 6 months it make you grimace a bit firing those class of cartridges at a sheet of steel!

Has to be done.

I'll be starting with True Cyl, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4.  All Teague super extended aftermarket in a 34 year old browning 28" OU.

I'll draw a 30" circle and maybe a 2nd larger circle to be determined when it comes to it.

 

To be honest, there's not a lot to be gained from a 2nd larger circle. However, while you're at it, a 2nd smaller one at 20" diameter is an all different story. If you do it - obviously we're firing sufficient shots on which to base a fair 'field' assessment (average) - sing out and I'll PM some info'.

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1 hour ago, wymberley said:

2nd smaller one at 20" diameter is an all different story. 

I still don’t get the relevance of this in the real world. No-one is good enough to consistently put birds in such a small diameter, and many more will be downed by the pellets outside that zone than inside.

Personally, I look for a good even spread at the distance I’ll be shooting at.

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2 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

I still don’t get the relevance of this in the real world. No-one is good enough to consistently put birds in such a small diameter, and many more will be downed by the pellets outside that zone than inside.

Personally, I look for a good even spread at the distance I’ll be shooting at.

No problem with that.

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On 19/09/2021 at 12:43, London Best said:

As far as I am concerned the effective range of a shotgun is forty to forty five yards. I consciously try not to shoot any further.

Exactly the rest in my view are willy waggers and should stick to clays which you cannot wound and not care about.

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14 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Exactly the rest in my view are willy waggers and should stick to clays which you cannot wound and not care about.

😂 And round and round we go! You couldn’t make this stuff up, you really couldn’t! 

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10 hours ago, wymberley said:

To be honest, there's not a lot to be gained from a 2nd larger circle. However, while you're at it, a 2nd smaller one at 20" diameter is an all different story. If you do it - obviously we're firing sufficient shots on which to base a fair 'field' assessment (average) - sing out and I'll PM some info'.

The reason I was considering a larger circle was to assess the pattern density outside the 30", but on reflection, hang on, I don't think there will be anything to shout about ! 😄

20" circle no problem, maybe the wind will pick up in a week or so to do some field tests as the season starts shortly !

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11 hours ago, Shotkam said:

The reason I was considering a larger circle was to assess the pattern density outside the 30", but on reflection, hang on, I don't think there will be anything to shout about ! 😄

20" circle no problem, maybe the wind will pick up in a week or so to do some field tests as the season starts shortly !

I don't understand so have to ask, twice you've mentioned the wind getting up - why is that relevant?

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Ha Ha - I live on the side of a valley and even though there are no close neighbours I am aware that when you start firing a load of decent cartridges there will be noise. That is the reason I like a windy day > 30mph ideally.

I try and keep shooting low key where possible even though I am quite within my rights.

You know how it is with shooting these days and I plan to keep doing as much as possible for as long as possible !

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