Poor old Elizabeth

[chrisjpainter]

9 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I thought it was supposed to have happened in London. That's why his alibi was the pizza place in Working or wherever it was.

True story...

[KB1]

22 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I thought it was supposed to have happened in London. That's why his alibi was the pizza place in Working or wherever it was.

His NYC Mansion in London?😳

[KB1]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

She's never suggested that he forced himself on her, only that she was pressurized into sleeping with him by Epstein and  Maxwell

Where did you get that info from?

[Dibble]

2 hours ago, ditchman said:

.he will trip out game shooting with his H&H 12 bore....ooops...jobs a gooden

Interceptor sear should stop that working.......

 

The fact he had a public friendship with Maxwell shows a lack of judgement

[ditchman]

4 minutes ago, Dibble said:

Interceptor sear should stop that working.......

 

The fact he had a public friendship with Maxwell shows a lack of judgement

didnt know about that................anyone else we should be aware of ?

 

sorry cant help myself muckraking

[Walker570]

I do remember him sat in the pilots seat of a Sea King acting as a Exocet decoy behind a destroyer in the South Atlantic so must be some good somehwere in there.

He is a complete plonker for sure but those women flew out in a private aircraft to a private tropical island all full of promises, if anyone is a bit dim then they must be as well.

As the saying goes.."It takes two to tango"

[Fuddster]

Lad I used to work with served on a HMS in the Falklands conflict-he said Andy delivered the mail and supplies and was kept well away from danger.

I wonder if Fergie will chip in or perhaps Koo?

f.

 

 

[Diver One]

1 minute ago, Fuddster said:

Lad I used to work with served on a HMS in the Falklands conflict-he said Andy delivered the mail and supplies and was kept well away from danger.

I wonder if Fergie will chip in or perhaps Koo?

f.

 

 

My wife's friends husband was chief Artificer on HRHs ship....he said that if it was kicking off in the north then HRH was told to,fly south and hover until he started to get low on fuel,and then come back.  I do not know how true this was, but...

[Danger-Mouse]

11 hours ago, Fuddster said:

He's travelled the world first class all his life, seen and done things we commoners could never dream off and lived the life of a playboy.

However, he can remember a trip out for a pizza after all these years?

What an amazing power of recall!

f.

In an extraordinary life, an ordinary event may well stick in the mind as an unusual experience. Don't forget the Royals don't get to experience dining amongst the common folk that often.

Plus wasn't it supposed to be a birthday celebration? Surely something you could see someone remembering like that?

Oh, and then there are probably diaries from the time.

I have no idea if what he said was true, but it could be.

[Retsdon]

5 hours ago, KB1 said:

His NYC Mansion in London?😳

'Giuffre said before having sex in a London home, they had dinner and went to a nightclub..'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/claudiakoerner/prince-andrew-epstein-bbc-interview

Understand that I'm not defending him personally. But let's stay with what's known or alleged. 

[Cosmicblue]

Whilst I have no sympathy for the prince at all I do wonder is this has elements of young women being prepared to do almost anything for money and then going on to regret it in later life along with the opportunity of being in the media?

[Penelope]

13 hours ago, Retsdon said:

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. What's he actually accused of doing other than hanging about with Epstein? Victoria Giuffre was 17 at the time he supposedly did what he did  and the last I looked that was over the age of consent. She's never suggested that he forced himself on her, only that she was pressurized into sleeping with him by Epstein and  Maxwell. Did he even know that pressure was being applied or did he just think she was hopping into bed because he was a prince of the realm? My guess is that he was so far up his own backside that it was almost certainly the latter. And even then, if she'd simply said no, what's the worst that would have happened? She'd have been shown the door. That's not any kind of crime.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the likes of Prince Andrew. I'm absolutely sure that he's a pampered, self-satisfied, whatever. But at the same time I really have no time for these prurient witch-hunts. And without evidence to the contrary the worst he's guilty of is being an insensitive moron.

So what's new?

Of course he's made it miles worse by his absurd dodging and diving. He'd of been far better to have just said he slept with the girl and so what. Unless he has other skeletons waiting in the closet the worse he could have been accused of was of having a sense of gross entitlement and being massively stupid and boorish. But, really everyone knows that's pretty much built into the royalty system anyway.

 

Well said.

[Muddy Funker]

I've worked with people that worked directly with him in protection roles. Not one of them ever had a good word to say about him. 

Neither did anyone they talked too that worked in the met. 

This seems to be echoed by almost everyone that's either worked or knows someone that worked alongside him. 

The bloke is clearly an #### of the highest order. 

 

Edit: Sorry for using the word worked 5 times in this post, it's ridiculous 😂

Edited November 20, 2019 by Muddy Funker

[Kalahari]

Just because you don't like someone, doesn't make them guilty of a criminal offence.

 

David.

[panoma1]

4 minutes ago, Kalahari said:

Just because you don't like someone, doesn't make them guilty of a criminal offence.

 

David.

No, but it gives an insight in how they are likely to treat others who work for them or otherwise cross their paths!.........lack of empathy often goes with power and privilege!

[Retsdon]

I've been reading up about this Epstein character and it's caused me to revise my opinion. The man was quite obviously obsessed with exploiting and bedding questionably young girls to an extent that to to know him as well as Andrew did and to then pretend total ignorance doesn't wash. It would be like palling around with George Digweed for a decade and then claiming that you didn't know that Digweed went shooting, or that you thought at best he shot only on the very odd occasion. It would be an absurd claim to make. 

No, I think Andrew was in deeper than he would ever be prepared to admit and is now trying the blanket denial gambit. He'll have to hope that nothing else comes out of the woodwork.

 

[KB1]

14 hours ago, Retsdon said:

'Giuffre said before having sex in a London home, they had dinner and went to a nightclub..'

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/claudiakoerner/prince-andrew-epstein-bbc-interview

Understand that I'm not defending him personally. But let's stay with what's known or alleged. 

My bad…….🥴  I was getting confused with the video of him opening the door in the NYC house………..   He gets about🤪

[Retsdon]

Just now, KB1 said:

My bad…….🥴  I was getting confused with the video of him opening the door in the NYC house………..   He gets about🤪

See my post above..

 

[Gordon R]

Quote

Victoria Giuffre was 17 at the time he supposedly did what he did  and the last I looked that was over the age of consent

That would work in the UK, but not where they "met" in the USA.

[Retsdon]

9 hours ago, Cosmicblue said:

I do wonder is this has elements of young women being prepared to do almost anything for money and then going on to regret it in later life

Of course it has. But that's why there are laws in place to try and defend these girls from themselves. If you think back to when you were 16 or so, what did you know about the world? People of that age might not be children as such but they're very naive even though they might think they're not. And Epstein was a cynical exploiter of that innocence.

I'll admit that I'm normally pretty sympathetic towards blokes who find themselves smitten by the charms of a 16 year old and who then proceed to throw up their careers and wives etc to elope or whatever. It's a form of temporary madness that attracts far too much indignant opprobrium from the self-righteous. But this wasn't a teacher who read one too many love poems to a doe-eyed pupil in his lower 6th class and ended up believing the words on the page. Epstein was different. He was a cynical exploiter who instituted a whole logistical system to supply himself with a conveyor belt of teenage girls for sex - many from troubled backgrounds - and part of that system was to bait the trap with a jet set lifestyle. And once ensnared these girls were basically used until he tired of them and then discarded for new ones.

Of course, it's very hard to police personal relationships and past a certain age people must, to an extent, carry the blame for their own naivety. But the balance of power between a 15 or 16 year old girl from a troubled home and a multi-millionaire with a jet and a private island ( not to mention a team of 3rd party female procurers)  is so unequal as to make any argument about 'choice' on her part pretty much redundant. 

I think these girls have every right to feel that they were badly abused.

[panoma1]

38 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

Of course it has. But that's why there are laws in place to try and defend these girls from themselves. If you think back to when you were 16 or so, what did you know about the world? People of that age might not be children as such but they're very naive even though they might think they're not. And Epstein was a cynical exploiter of that innocence.

I'll admit that I'm normally pretty sympathetic towards blokes who find themselves smitten by the charms of a 16 year old and who then proceed to throw up their careers and wives etc to elope or whatever. It's a form of temporary madness that attracts far too much indignant opprobrium from the self-righteous. But this wasn't a teacher who read one too many love poems to a doe-eyed pupil in his lower 6th class and ended up believing the words on the page. Epstein was different. He was a cynical exploiter who instituted a whole logistical system to supply himself with a conveyor belt of teenage girls for sex - many from troubled backgrounds - and part of that system was to bait the trap with a jet set lifestyle. And once ensnared these girls were basically used until he tired of them and then discarded for new ones.

Of course, it's very hard to police personal relationships and past a certain age people must, to an extent, carry the blame for their own naivety. But the balance of power between a 15 or 16 year old girl from a troubled home and a multi-millionaire with a jet and a private island ( not to mention a team of 3rd party female procurers)  is so unequal as to make any argument about 'choice' on her part pretty much redundant. 

I think these girls have every right to feel that they were badly abused.

16? Naive? The Labour Party (and other parties) want to give them the vote!....I wonder why?????????? So they can abuse them by taking advantage of them? Because they are naive and will sell out for every bribe they are promised!......sounds familiar!!

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, panoma1 said:

16? Naive? The Labour Party (and other parties) want to give them the vote!..

And they're completely wrong.

[panoma1]

See Andy is “stepping back” from public life!......I wonder if he’s gonna step back from any future civil list money and perks he gets from the public purse? 🤔 

[ditchman]

48 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

See Andy is “stepping back” from public life!......I wonder if he’s gonna step back from any future civil list money and perks he gets from the public purse? 🤔 

i rekon there is more to come ..........

[figgy]

He should have declined to comment.  The idiot opened his mouth. As said she was of legal age.

All the talk of pampered and privileged, they're the royal family.

Treating servants as serfs, should they treat them as equals?  So long as they're civil to the staff. After all if not suited find other employment.

Wonder if prince Andrew loses sleep about not being nice to people and wondering if they like him, I think not.  I've worked for some right insert lots of swear words, but I'm not there to like them or them me oy to do my job.

I'm no royalist but it does have its perks.

Edited November 20, 2019 by figgy