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Centrepin

USSR Hammer gun

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Today whilst shooting, a chap I say good morning to every week proudly showed me his hammer gun and insisted I fired it.

Absolutely pristine, sweet action, non ejector, zero recoil, lovely gun.

He was obviously very pleased with it and himself and kept telling me "from home" 

I was wearing my distance glasses, so couldn't really see any markings, letters, numbers etc, but 3" along the barrels looked like stretch mark's or some makers weld?

He kept comparing it to my side by side and saying "good yes"

My son says it was stamped underneath USSR.

When I asked someone English speaking, he said it could be as little as 30 years old and worth £50 - £80

So does anyone know anything about these for interests sake?

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8 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

That could well be it or a close version, same marking 3" on barrel, very similar in all other respects. His wood work was so dark it was almost black and obviously highly polished. As the write up says it's the only mass produced from USSR then it's more than likely the one, just well looked after and polished.

Thanks for that, 👍 I knew someone would know what it was.👍

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Baikal are a collection of guns marketed under the Baikal name, some are IZH like the 27s O/us or Model 58s and 430s , but others are make in other factories like TULA . The Tula factory make the model 32 &34 and various rifles i think the SKS was made by them, the Russian hammer guns are made by Tula factory. These were marketed here as baikals back in the day in a quite plain version, these are the ones you tend to come accros mostly in 12 or 16 but they do other bores too.

In the family catalogue days the russian hammer guns were sold through the catalogue firms, in various finishes some were prettier than others and had nickel type action platting and typical rolled engraving.

I know of a chap bought a Vostock MU109, out of a catalouge back in the early 60s they were apparently only in the book for one 1/4 of the year.

And the firm  or its suppliers had bought a shipment of guns and there weree a few Vostocks amongst them.

They sold a few different semi autos too a few were gas opperated and one a sort of clone of the Remington 1148 which is like an 1100 remington with long recoil action.

Edited by lancer425

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I remember as a boy gazing longingly in the catalogues at shotguns and trying to decide which one I wanted most. 

I think the chap today was also trying to tell me he had another with much shorter barrels and either an auto or semiautomatic  back home along with rifles.

I see him every week, always on his own, using the grounds loan gun, fires 1 box of the grounds cartridges at 1 stand and leaves. I sometimes offer to work the traps for him to help him out and he rattles away as if I understand every word😁

We had to be away early today but I noticed he had a bag of cartridges this time and wanted to use different stands or I would have stayed as he seemed to be extra happy.

Very nice looking 12g hammer gun though and if they are that cheap I wouldn't mind another gun in my cabinet. He might have been trying to tell me it would take up to 3" cartridges when he kept pointing in the barrels and saying "any".

Thanks for the info👍

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46 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

I remember as a boy gazing longingly in the catalogues at shotguns and trying to decide which one I wanted most. 

I think the chap today was also trying to tell me he had another with much shorter barrels and either an auto or semiautomatic  back home along with rifles.

I see him every week, always on his own, using the grounds loan gun, fires 1 box of the grounds cartridges at 1 stand and leaves. I sometimes offer to work the traps for him to help him out and he rattles away as if I understand every word😁

We had to be away early today but I noticed he had a bag of cartridges this time and wanted to use different stands or I would have stayed as he seemed to be extra happy.

Very nice looking 12g hammer gun though and if they are that cheap I wouldn't mind another gun in my cabinet. He might have been trying to tell me it would take up to 3" cartridges when he kept pointing in the barrels and saying "any".

Thanks for the info👍

Wabitbosher gets them in  now and again the basic Baikal hammer guns by tula  he  had a couple of 16 bores this past year i noticed . not sure if he has one left at moment. but worth asking.

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Tula Arms Plant  Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod  TOZ Tula Arms Plant, founded in 1712 under the decree of Peter the Great Apparently.  Not showing the hammerguns anymore. they did make a 4 Ga pump action shotgun too. in the late 80s/90s. was short barrel and a short chamber about 3 inch i think.

http://en.tulatoz.ru/

 

 

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11 hours ago, lancer425 said:

Tula Arms Plant  Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod  TOZ Tula Arms Plant, founded in 1712 under the decree of Peter the Great Apparently.  Not showing the hammerguns anymore. they did make a 4 Ga pump action shotgun too. in the late 80s/90s. was short barrel and a short chamber about 3 inch i think.

http://en.tulatoz.ru/

 

 

Interesting that the O/U Guns are 20 bore top barrel 12 under, any idea why?

If I see an old Russian hammer gun cheap enough I might have one just for the sake of it. I'm always looking at old English hammer guns waiting for the right one. Trouble is where to stop, 6 gun safe and all manner of old interesting guns out there. 

😉🙄😁😁

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19 minutes ago, London Best said:

Buy quality old English. Only buy Russian guns if you are short of hedge stakes.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

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22 minutes ago, harrycatcat1 said:

Like this one?

Screenshot_20191125-105605.jpg

Yup, for Russian I was impressed how well it handled and fired. The guy that owned it was obviously very proud of it. I think he may have had it shipped in from his own country. (Not sure where as I struggled to understand him)

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4 minutes ago, London Best said:

Harrycat, my post was meant to advise Centrepin, I was not picking on your gun. Your post just beat mine to be posted.

I gathered that 😁

It's not that I particularly wanted one, just wanted more information on one as I'm familiar with a lot of Soviet era weapons just not shotguns. Of course if one was to cross my path at the right moment........😉

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5 minutes ago, London Best said:

Buy quality old English. Only buy Russian guns if you are short of hedge stakes.

ERR! Not really Russian guns are not at all bad in fact they are good.

Not fancy in the utilitarian models we see marketed here but reliability is good and for the price point excellent.

Not saying anything wrong with english hammer guns i have had several over the past 40 years or so and they were certainly less of a physical strain to cock compared to the Baikal. but english hammers are getting old now and creeping up in vallue baikals or cheap armi san marcos/ bredas are still 50 to 150 pounds quite often.

I think the baikal is tougher than the italian models mentioned i really do.

 Baikals are basic work horses not trying to be fancy looking. Another option the aya 3 inch hammer guns they fetch a bit more but are reasanably quality and were made much latter than any english hammer guns.

 

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1 minute ago, lancer425 said:

ERR! Not really Russian guns are not at all bad in fact they are good.

Not fancy in the utilitarian models we see marketed here but reliability is good and for the price point excellent.

Not saying anything wrong with english hammer guns i have had several over the past 40 years or so and they were certainly less of a physical strain to cock compared to the Baikal. but english hammers are getting old now and creeping up in vallue baikals or cheap armi san marcos/ bredas are still 50 to 150 pounds quite often.

I think the baikal is tougher than the italian models mentioned i really do.

 Baikals are basic work horses not trying to be fancy looking. Another option the aya 3 inch hammer guns they fetch a bit more but are reasanably quality and were made much latter than any english hammer guns.

 

I have to agree with every word of your post. I just think the “quality” of Russian guns offends the intelligence every time you look at one.

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8 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

ERR! Not really Russian guns are not at all bad in fact they are good.

Not fancy in the utilitarian models we see marketed here but reliability is good and for the price point excellent.

Not saying anything wrong with english hammer guns i have had several over the past 40 years or so and they were certainly less of a physical strain to cock compared to the Baikal. but english hammers are getting old now and creeping up in vallue baikals or cheap armi san marcos/ bredas are still 50 to 150 pounds quite often.

I think the baikal is tougher than the italian models mentioned i really do.

 Baikals are basic work horses not trying to be fancy looking. Another option the aya 3 inch hammer guns they fetch a bit more but are reasanably quality and were made much latter than any english hammer guns.

 

It certainly handled well and was better made than any AK, RPD, or RPK or any other Eastern Bloc stuff I've handled.

For in the region of 50 to 80 £s it would be an interesting buy to try out on a Sunday morning with friends.

My local RFD has an old AYA hammer with ejectors for around 130 ish, so I know they are around.

They are certainly interesting guns if you like firearms in general.

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39 minutes ago, London Best said:

Harrycat, my post was meant to advise Centrepin, I was not picking on your gun. Your post just beat mine to be posted.

No offence taken, I have belted many a fence post in with it.🤣

I took it out Saturday as it was raining and it only cost me 60 quid to buy. I had a screaming pheasant with it so I was chuffed 👍

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Something like this:

 

It's a Tula and way better finishing than any baikal I have seen and is frankly a delight to shoot. Very well balanced. 

IMG_20190613_070246.jpg.082595c6ecbbe8c36e877c17acd47b93.jpg

IMG_20190614_131343.jpg.0e983dbd3c161efa275ffebc3dac72ae.jpg

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11 minutes ago, Lord v said:

Something like this:

 

It's a Tula and way better finishing than any baikal I have seen and is frankly a delight to shoot. Very well balanced. 

IMG_20190613_070246.jpg.082595c6ecbbe8c36e877c17acd47b93.jpg

IMG_20190614_131343.jpg.0e983dbd3c161efa275ffebc3dac72ae.jpg

The woodwork was certainly very dark, but the barrels and hammer dark too, like harrycats. 

That's a fine looking gun btw.

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4 minutes ago, Centrepin said:

The woodwork was certainly very dark, but the barrels and hammer dark too, like harrycats. 

That's a fine looking gun btw.

My guess would be the Baikal or the TOZ-66. Mine is a TOZ-63, cost the princely sum of £130. 

Despite the marketing of yesteryear (and even currently - I see tons of Tula's mis-labelled as Baikals) Tula and Baikal were two different companies. Tula produced a little something called the  Mosin -Nagant 1891... 

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42 minutes ago, London Best said:

I have to agree with every word of your post. I just think the “quality” of Russian guns offends the intelligence every time you look at one.

Absolutely they are a tool to do a job, and one other aspect i perversely get   enjoyment from is the very fact it is russian and in the wider world well to be accurate the unknowing wider world look down their noses at baikals. They work like any other gun however and matching guns costing five times as much is a positive i kind of enjoy doing.

I always had a hankering for a vostock but never been lucky enough to find one. I had a merkel 200E and as a young chap a aya coral o/u both had that vostock style to them that appealed to me.

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1 minute ago, Lord v said:

My guess would be the Baikal or the TOZ-66. Mine is a TOZ-63, cost the princely sum of £130. 

Despite the marketing of yesteryear (and even currently - I see tons of Tula's mis-labelled as Baikals) Tula and Baikal were two different companies. Tula produced a little something called the  Mosin -Nagant 1891... 

Baikal is marketing name. the hammer guns were from tula TOZ factory but marketed as baikal up in to the 2000s at least like york gun and 3 inch IZH baikal times.

TOZ and IZH products get lumped under the baikal banner .

IZH make moscovich cars or did and motorcycles like Jupiter and BMW copies that were marketed under cosack or Neval . Nevile and Alan  father and son guys who sold them back in the day not too far from me in humberside.

IZH make ural trucks GAZ jeeps many things Toz tula arms not so much but the old 32 and 34P TOZ are a nice handling shotgun. similar sort of style to a cynergey, a  toz 34 popular hunting gun in russia. even in these more affluent times where you see berettas brownings etc in use over there they still stick with the IZH 27s or Toz 34s model 56s and 58s etc and baikal mp153s . Which i can directly see why i have an mp153 and love it its supper reliable had it years another good gun made by IZH

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40 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

Baikal is marketing name. the hammer guns were from tula TOZ factory but marketed as baikal up in to the 2000s at least like york gun and 3 inch IZH baikal times.

So are there 3" chambered Baikal sxs's about?

If so I would like one as my hammer is only 2 3/4" chambered.

Edited to say I could knock some really big fence posts in with it😁

Edited by harrycatcat1
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