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cookoff013

Tungsten shot

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1 hour ago, cookoff013 said:

Clay game now stock tungsten shot.

T18 and T15

£70/£75 per Kg? Bargain!😏

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Ill buy 2! Pieces of shot.

Saying that, i wouldnt mind shooting it through a pressure barrel.

I think i still have a kilo of A1 somewhere.

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1 hour ago, bishop said:

posted?

Hand delivered, at that price, I would think?.........1kg = approx 35 x 1oz loads = £2 per bang, in shot alone!.......plus case, primer, powder, and wad!....not to mention the initial cost of machinery required to load them!

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Ahh but 😊

we’re moving forward with reloding 

the possibilities with the heavy shot tungsten are as yet not fully explored and the distance striking energy and pattern potential could change the way we perceive shotgun performance 

just need a decent non plastic wad to go with it 🙄

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18 hours ago, shakin stevens said:

Love the power shot through the 10b but at £75 a kilo I'm out !

Still got a load of old itm and nice shot in bb , might move it on .

In a 2oz x 10 bore load you’ll get about 17 shots for £75! Plus the cost of case, primer, powder and wad......So not many are buying it Rob, it’s a silly price!........best either use or be quick getting rid of the other stuff, the asking price those selling their stash of it, is dropping!

Steel has won as the only cost effective viable option now!

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I thought the concept was that due to the very high density, lethal patterns could be created by smaller shot and therefore smaller loads?

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On 30/11/2019 at 14:23, Old farrier said:

Ahh but 😊

we’re moving forward with reloding 

the possibilities with the heavy shot tungsten are as yet not fully explored and the distance striking energy and pattern potential could change the way we perceive shotgun performance 

just need a decent non plastic wad to go with it 🙄

Not 100% sure about this as with the limited time I had and the fact that all of the necessary information was not in just the one place, there may be an error. But as an indication and assuming a MV of 1400 ft/sec, for a UK 6 the energy level drops to 1.5 ftlbs at 82 yards (UK 6 lead is 39). And for a UK 9 the energy level drops to 1 ftlb at 54 yards (UK 9 lead is 19 yards).

The above relates to the T18.

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2 hours ago, Smokersmith said:

I thought the concept was that due to the very high density, lethal patterns could be created by smaller shot and therefore smaller loads?

The shot size is immaterial, whatever, you still get approx 35 ozs......for £75.....But you could stretch the cost per shell out a bit, by loading sub-one ounce loads!

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9 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

But you could stretch the cost per shell out a bit, by loading sub-one ounce loads!

Ta dah !

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48 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

The shot size is immaterial, whatever, you still get approx 35 ozs......for £75.....But you could stretch the cost per shell out a bit, by loading sub-one ounce loads!

20g TSS in 410 works very nicely

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15 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

20g TSS in 410 works very nicely

Yep that would get you another 14 shots! Total = 49 shots for £75 @ £1.53 a shot...plus .410 consumables!

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Yeah, I've been pondering about using 10grms of size 9, T18 and mixing with 8grms of size 6 lead to be able to push the typical 410 load beyond it's current effective range, especially for those tall driven pheasant. Might even be able to squeeze it all into a 2.5 case..

I understand our new world cousins are right up there pushing boundaries with 28b and 410 using T18 plus matrixing with steel too.

I will admit though, it's early days for me with this adventure..

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17 minutes ago, Salmo9 said:

Yeah, I've been pondering about using 10grms of size 9, T18 and mixing with 8grms of size 6 lead to be able to push the typical 410 load beyond it's current effective range, especially for those tall driven pheasant. Might even be able to squeeze it all into a 2.5 case..

I understand our new world cousins are right up there pushing boundaries with 28b and 410 using T18 plus matrixing with steel too.

I will admit though, it's early days for me with this adventure..

I really don't see the point of mixing tss with anything else.

5 hours ago, wymberley said:

How does this material pattern as to me it looks a lot like a law of diminishing returns? Taking the latter example above first and assuming that I have it right or at least close, the energy can be matched ish by 7&1/2 lead and at 400 to the ounce is more advantageous than the 362 for the tungsten although the 362 is sufficient. Similarly, 4&1/2 lead ( or there abouts) at c200 is up against just 185 from the Tungsten. Now I appreciate that comparing the two is somewhat pointless as if NTS is called for, lead is out of the question, but if the Tungsten does not pattern tightly and with not a lot of bangs for your buck for anything other than the smaller shot sizes steel still takes some beating with regards to ballistic performance, never mind cost.

Mind you for the 80 yard pheasant a UK 5 will match a UK lead 3 in terms of energy and pellets/ounce if they do pattern at that range.

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. The shot in question is 18gm per cm/3. It is capable of killing long range geese with small shot. I have shot geese at well over 50 yards with a 30 gm 7.5 load.

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On 30/11/2019 at 14:23, Old farrier said:

Ahh but 😊

we’re moving forward with reloding 

the possibilities with the heavy shot tungsten are as yet not fully explored and the distance striking energy and pattern potential could change the way we perceive shotgun performance 

just need a decent non plastic wad to go with it 🙄

You can get good card cups in both ten and eight bore but I am not aware of any in twelve yet.

On 01/12/2019 at 11:45, panoma1 said:

In a 2oz x 10 bore load you’ll get about 17 shots for £75! Plus the cost of case, primer, powder and wad......So not many are buying it Rob, it’s a silly price!........best either use or be quick getting rid of the other stuff, the asking price those selling their stash of it, is dropping!

Steel has won as the only cost effective viable option now!

Agreed. I use 2oz in the 8 bore but only take it out occasionally. Generally I use steel in the 10 or 12 bores as it kills at range and is cost effective.

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1 hour ago, motty said:

I really don't see the point of mixing tss with anything else.

I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. The shot in question is 18gm per cm/3. It is capable of killing long range geese with small shot. I have shot geese at well over 50 yards with a 30 gm 7.5 load.

Yep, that might just be do-able. Was that shot size USA or UK or better still, can you remember the diameter?

EDIT: Bit more work: At what distance do you think a lead No 3 would drop a similar goose in similar conditions to the ones that you mentioned?

 

 

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4 hours ago, wymberley said:

Not 100% sure about this as with the limited time I had and the fact that all of the necessary information was not in just the one place, there may be an error. But as an indication and assuming a MV of 1400 ft/sec, for a UK 6 the energy level drops to 1.5 ftlbs at 61 yards (UK 6 lead is 39). And for a UK 9 the energy level drops to 1 ftlb at 37 yards (UK 9 lead is 19 yards).

The above relates to the T18.

Using Shotshell Ballistic Calculator

Assuming 1400MV and No 6 167TSS/Oz - (0.103inch - lead equivalent to 270 pellets per Oz), 18TSS retains a lot more energy, at 80 yards 1.99ftlbs and 2.38inch of penetration. Similarly No9  - 358TSS/Oz (2mm - 0.08inch -  575 pellets per Oz lead equivilent) retains 0.98ftlbs at 60 yards and 1.77 inches penetration.

 

If you drop MV to 1250ft/sec to match terminal energy of the lead loads suggested at the range quoted,  No6 TSS still has 1.76ftlbs and 2.2 inch penetration  at 80 yards and No9 has 1ftlb and 1.78 penetration at 53 yards.

 

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21 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

Using Shotshell Ballistic Calculator

Assuming 1400MV and No 6 167TSS/Oz - (0.103inch - lead equivalent to 270 pellets per Oz), 18TSS retains a lot more energy, at 80 yards 1.99ftlbs and 2.38inch of penetration. Similarly No9  - 358TSS/Oz (2mm - 0.08inch -  575 pellets per Oz lead equivilent) retains 0.98ftlbs at 60 yards and 1.77 inches penetration.

 

If you drop MV to 1250ft/sec to match terminal energy of the lead loads suggested at the range quoted,  No6 TSS still has 1.76ftlbs and 2.2 inch penetration  at 80 yards and No9 has 1ftlb and 1.78 penetration at 53 yards.

 

Don't you find those figures somewhat excessive. What ballistic coefficients did you use?

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7 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Don't you find those figures somewhat excessive. What ballistic coefficients did you use?

I find calculations can potentially be way off. For example, with your earlier calculation of lead 9s, I have recently routinely crumpled pigeons at 35-40 yards with an ounce of number 9s (lead). Your calculations would suggest that this simply cannot be possible.

These dense, small tss pellets seem to pack far more of a punch than would ever seem logical.

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22 minutes ago, motty said:

I find calculations can potentially be way off. For example, with your earlier calculation of lead 9s, I have recently routinely crumpled pigeons at 35-40 yards with an ounce of number 9s (lead). Your calculations would suggest that this simply cannot be possible.

These dense, small tss pellets seem to pack far more of a punch than would ever seem logical.

Yep, at my age - and one other member will confirm, while a tad younger -  I can quite easily make mistakes so my calculations can be way off as you say. However, when they're right they're reasonably accurate. The thing is energy, velocity and pattern on their own are not the be all and end all of pellet performance. I was hoping that you'd popped back to answer my question regarding the goose and No 3 shot and I was then going to explain why you are correct and also why the effective range of lead 9s is not 19 yards. The problem is is that this would involve more calculations so we won't go there after all.

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