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Lloyd90

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19 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, if you use to an O/U and as smoker smith mentioned the sighting plane consider a XXV type of rib,

And then find something English but not expensive and possibly with 25&1/2" barrels with some choke which could be sorted to your own requirements if necessary - a nice W&C Scott perhaps,  -  and enjoy Christmas.

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2 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, if you use to an O/U and as smoker smith mentioned the sighting plane consider a XXV type of rib,

If you are looking at the rib with any gun you are going to miss.

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9 hours ago, Robertt said:

If I see my barrel I miss.

BUT watch Carrie shoot birds miles further than I can shoot and he seems to be aiming !?

No he isn't …. ! He has an intense focus on the bird, watching for minute changes in line which his vastly experienced 'autopilot' turns into how he creates the forward allowance and times his shot.

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On 16/12/2019 at 18:04, figgy said:

In the UK the Webley and BSA are the equivalent of Baikal in Russia mass made cheap guns for working folk.

I'm not having a dig, they are what they are. The fords and Vauxhall's of guns.

I disagree. Webley may well have been the mainstay of the trade but they weren't cheap or of poor quality. They were popular, made in quantity and exported around the works so perhaps more like a Beretta/Browning/Miroku today.

You can have the basic one or you can have a shiny one.

GBS

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Where did I say poor quality 🤔,  cheap they were  just like the Beretta and Browning's etc.

It's only the influx of bargain basement Turkish guns make them appear more expensive.

Basic B gun around £1200.00  is a cheap gun in today's market. Mid range start is 5k plus.

Edited by figgy

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1 hour ago, figgy said:

Where did I say poor quality 🤔,  cheap they were  just like the Beretta and Browning's etc.

 

The BSA’s were machine made like the “B” guns, but not mass produced like the “B” guns. I am sure more hand work went into the Webley. IMO both were better made than the entry level “B” guns. You compared them to Baikals. 
Baikals are an insult to gun making.

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Only in the sense of being a mass produced everyman's gun. Some high grade guns were sold under the Baikal name. To your average working man Russian a baikal is the equivalent.

Any guns made back then were hand finished the machines were not good enough. Beretta and Browning's were also hand finished.

The bargain basement guns at the time were the Spanish imports, now quite popular.

People think fondly of the Webley and Scott guns, their fathers and grandfather's had them. Taught them to shoot with one, handed them down in some cases. I loved my Webley and Scott air rifles. Same with BSA, mass made and decent.

For Lloyd one might make a nice purchase, I'd go AYA or similar the company is still going and parts a plenty.

Edited by figgy

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2 hours ago, London Best said:

The BSA’s were machine made like the “B” guns, but not mass produced like the “B” guns. I am sure more hand work went into the Webley. IMO both were better made than the entry level “B” guns. You compared them to Baikals. 
Baikals are an insult to gun making.

I disagree baikals are not a insult to gun making I like most people I know who hunt started out using baikal shotguns as a way to get on the shooting ladder without spending to much money to get started I shot a baikal o/u for years on partridge/pheasant rough shoot  and shooting ducks on lough and done very well using one ☝️ 

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2 hours ago, London Best said:

The BSA’s were machine made like the “B” guns, but not mass produced like the “B” guns. I am sure more hand work went into the Webley. IMO both were better made than the entry level “B” guns. You compared them to Baikals. 
Baikals are an insult to gun making.

I have seen top quality Baikal sidelocks that would easily be taken for named English sidelocks. The Baikals that we see are the workhorses of the range, made for jacking up the tractor when needed. If you were to stand a Webley 700 and a AyA No.4 side by side, they are almost identical.

Edited by Westley

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2 hours ago, figgy said:

 

The bargain basement guns at the time were the Spanish imports, now quite popular.

 

The bargain basement Spanish imports did not start until fifty years after the machine made BSA’s. I cut my teeth on them, single barrels, then doubles. I still have two.

3 minutes ago, Westley said:

I have seen top quality Baikal sidelocks that would easily be taken for named English sidelocks. The Baikals that we see are the workhorses of the range, made for jacking up the tractor when needed.

I know they did some better quality hammerguns in Russia under various names.  
A good friend who shoots regularly with me uses Baikals. Keeps them on his tractor and when knackered just buys another. He is one of the finest shots I have ever known. None of this alters my opinion, his Baikals are still junk.

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LB you have your views But I think gun snobbery stop young people getting into the sport Yes agree they can be a bit rough  around the edges but don’t think there junk they will kill game as good as any make or model of shotgun as long as the gun fits   

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I just said my friend with the Baikals kills more than any of us. I am not a gun snob, I just appreciate quality. I will shoot with anything ( so long as it’s a SxS), and whilst I do like to use a best side lock for driven game  most of the ducks, geese, pigeons, crows etc are shot with the cheapest Spanish box lock I could buy fifty years ago. It was so bad, when I got it home I had to deburr it to avoid cutting myself. 
 

But compared to a Baikal, it oozes quality!

Edited by London Best

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Ha ha, but can it take a 20 bore down the barrel with 12 bore fired behind it like a Baikal built out of tank steel. New ones are different but the older ones could apparently without problems.

Edited by figgy

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On 16/12/2019 at 16:05, Stimo22 said:

So all this talk about 16 bores, some months ago I picked up this 1936 WW Greener with 30" barrels and in very good condition. It is a joy to use but the safety is just take a little getting used to in the cold weather

 

IMG_0590.JPG

 

Bloke on my shoot bought a Charles Bates with the same safety in 16 Bore and its stunning :) 

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On 17/12/2019 at 20:11, London Best said:

If you are looking at the rib with any gun you are going to miss.

hello, i said the sighting plane with no mention of a shotgun rib

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On 16/12/2019 at 18:53, London Best said:

Trust me, neither a pre war BSA and certainly not a Webley 700 are anything like as rough and agricultural as a Baikal.

Well said   - i concur wholeheartedly

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