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Punt guns

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On 20/12/2019 at 18:43, mudpatten said:

As an aside, quite a few punt guns are actually quite modern. Two friends of mine have recently completed a double barelled muzzle loader and a single barreled hybrid breech/ML is nearing completion.

O.F.- I`d be interested to hear how your trial with steel progresses. Both of the above guns were built with steel in mind but we`re fortunate to have accrued a lot of tungsten based shot over the years.

Here's an interesting question for you mudpattern,  which would be the better of the two,  a larger bore gun, or a smaller bored double barrelled gun firing half the large bore guns charge out of each barrel? 

I suppose to define better, I'm thinking in terms of pattern and ease of firing/recoil. Would the punt need fitting out differently to hold a double gun? 

No great reason for the question, more of a curiosity. I use work on a lathe all day every day so I often stand there pondering what I could make!

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Big Mat said:

Here's an interesting question for you mudpattern,  which would be the better of the two,  a larger bore gun, or a smaller bored double barrelled gun firing half the large bore guns charge out of each barrel? 

I suppose to define better, I'm thinking in terms of pattern and ease of firing/recoil. Would the punt need fitting out differently to hold a double gun? 

No great reason for the question, more of a curiosity. I use work on a lathe all day every day so I often stand there pondering what I could make!

 

 

I’d go for a smaller bored double as the chance of a small shot is far greater than a big one in the areas I go 

I’m sure the adrenaline rush will be as good 

I’m novice at this so I’m sure there’s more experienced will have other views 

as for setting up the boat there’s bound to be something that needs changing but nothing insurmountable 😊

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Old Farrier has it in one.

The reality though is that two 1 inch bore barrel tubes, in this case hydraulic steel tube, once joined and with the breach mechanism fitted actually works out to be quite heavy. In the case of this gun - 130 lbs.

The barrels are not swamped but are just the straight tube at about 7ft.in length. In practice it actually looks a lot better than it sounds. This was done for a number of reasons. To keep manufacturing costs down and to make joining the tubes easier. To deliberately keep the weight up to help control the presumed extra recoil from an increased powder charge when using steel shot. The weight of the gun is distributed along its entire length in order to reduce muzzle flip as much as possible and the greater thickness of metal in the barrels is intended to cope with potentially higher pressure and to allow an acceptance of any barrel scoring that might theoretically occur with steel shot.

It is fired electronically with a pyrotechnic match which means no conventional, and expensive, lockwork. It can be fired one barrel at a time or with varying delays. Either single or both together works best.

It has an underbarrel loop which helps to kill the recoil and, coupled with it`s weight, hardly moves upon firing. It is a good killing gun.

It looks much better than it sounds and cost £1500 to build. Regrettably,It`s not mine although I did "donate" one of the barrels.

 

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Posted (edited)

Enclosed are a couple of images of a old friend  who past away some decades  ago  who used a flintlock  punt gun on the south east coast .

Feltwad

Shooting a flintlock punt gun

100-2730.jpg

100-2734.jpg

Edited by Feltwad

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Old farrier said:

Nice pictures feltwad 

did your mate have 2 punt guns? Both flintlock?

Yes he had several punt guns  in both percussion and flint I have enclosed a image  from a old photograph of him firing a flintlock  Waters and Ward  flintlock punt gun  at the first Holkham  Country  Fair  1977 on Holkham lake  notice  the recoil  from the punt .

Feltwad 

100-2729.jpg

Edited by Feltwad

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Mike Townsend I believe.

Mike spent some time learning the craft from local punters in Chichester and Langstone Harbours whilst he served in the RAF flying Spitfires from Thorney Island in Chichetser Harbour just after the end of the war.

Is the bottom pic of him firing Irish Tom?

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11 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

Mike Townsend I believe.

Mike spent some time learning the craft from local punters in Chichester and Langstone Harbours whilst he served in the RAF flying Spitfires from Thorney Island in Chichetser Harbour just after the end of the war.

Is the bottom pic of him firing Irish Tom?

Yes you are correct it is  Mike Townsend from Maldon Sussex  whether the gun in the image is known has Irish Tom I cannot say all he told me it was built by  Waters and Ward ,I do have a image of him with a punt he was building .

Feltwad

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I knew Mike to speak to and we would meet up regularily at a particular BASC function. A keyboard slip I`m sure, but Maldon is in Essex.

I think that picture is of Mike at the Holkham fair firing the 21/4" Irish Tom, the gun is now at BASC HQ. Engineered in Manchester the gun was originally finished by W.W. Greener and I`m not aware of any connection with Waters and Ward although I can`t remember the name of the bloke who commissioned it, so that might have been a different gun but I`m happy to be corrected.

Irish Tom is over 14 feet long, you can see how far it hangs over the bows of the punt which from the scale of the gunners head is a large double hander. When rebuilt Irish Tom was never proofed and I wonder if the stripe in the water is from the muzzle blast of a blank charge coupled with a gentle breeze rather than the result of recoil from a live cartridge.

If anybody knows the answer to that conundrum I`d be fascinated to know.

 

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Stanley Duncan's old gun Irish Tom was restored by Allan Owens , he also made a small double gun firing 8oz from each barrel for Wing Commander Mike Townsend. In a letter I have from Allan dated 9.6.06 , Allan tells me a story of Mike Townsend being rescued the year before by a helicopter , when his punt got stuck in the mud on a trip last season, Mike being in his early eighties then, and still punting.

 

Bill

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44 minutes ago, moongeese said:

Stanley Duncan's old gun Irish Tom was restored by Allan Owens , he also made a small double gun firing 8oz from each barrel for Wing Commander Mike Townsend. In a letter I have from Allan dated 9.6.06 , Allan tells me a story of Mike Townsend being rescued the year before by a helicopter , when his punt got stuck in the mud on a trip last season, Mike being in his early eighties then, and still punting.

 

Bill

Some fascinating reading , anyone who have done punting would know how hard and tiring it can be , you cannot always rely on rowing with the tide , there are many times when you need to row against it , I would find it hard work now in my low 70s ,let alone in the 80s , someone you can only admire .

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Posted (edited)

Enclosed is a image of Mike on his  punt gun build  , a single hand  punt to carry a 100 lb gun   ,plus the gun on the finished punt .he also mention a punting partner named Jamie

Feltwad

100-2725.jpg

100-2727.jpg

Edited by Feltwad

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We covered some of this ground back last July. The punt bearing Irish Tom is the 24 foot double Black Goose, built by Paul Litten at Maldon in the seventies. Paul is the puntsman seen in some photos. I don't think the gun was charged with shot but both Paul and John Yates are still about so I will ask next time we are in contact. Mike and John started a display of big guns about the time the fair moved from Bayfield to Holkham. They were joined by Wells WA and the big tent by the lake was a good place to be, especially for the Friday night social. However all this changed when Andrew Cuthbert stopped running the show.

Mike kept his boats by the public slip at Maldon - the muddy top end of a muddy river. He got stuck next to his boat and was rescued by the Coast Guard and others but they needed a helicopter to bring him ashore.

When MT died, more than ten years ago, many of his possessions went to Bonhams for auction. The "Townsend and Owens" double made £5520. It was originally catalogued as an 1 1/4" but was actually a 1 1/8". Mr Owens made some other small doubles including a 1" which resides just up the road from Moongeese.

 

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Pushandpull

Thanks for that info on the punt gun Irish Tom and Mike Townsend , although I never personal met him he got in touch with me after I had a article in Shooting Times  on punt guns in the 1990,s  . We did keep in touch for some years later  until I heard he had died still think of him when punt guns conversation come up 

Feltwad

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Searched out these old photographs of Mike Townsend's  double gun made by Allan Owen,   it had a bore of 1 1/8" firing 8oz shot, the brass case having a  lenth   of 8 3/4".

I have one of the cases given to me by Allan.

IMAG0758 (2).jpg

IMAG0759 (2).jpg

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Many thanks Pushandpull.

Mike had a great sense of humour and was highly amused when I presented him with a pair of mudpattens shortly after his mudlarking escapade.

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On 03/01/2020 at 19:01, mudpatten said:

Mike Townsend I believe.

Mike spent some time learning the craft from local punters in Chichester and Langstone Harbours whilst he served in the RAF flying Spitfires from Thorney Island in Chichetser Harbour just after the end of the war.

Is the bottom pic of him firing Irish Tom?

Mike was a lovely man, a stalwart of the Blackwater Wildfowlers Assoc. 

On 03/01/2020 at 19:19, Feltwad said:

Yes you are correct it is  Mike Townsend from Maldon Sussex  whether the gun in the image is known has Irish Tom I cannot say all he told me it was built by  Waters and Ward ,I do have a image of him with a punt he was building .

Feltwad

The East Saxons, not the southern lot. 😀

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Yeah! Not the soft southern nancy boy Saxons! Although I personally claim heritage, at least in part, from the more civilised bunch of Saxon invaders who settled slightly to the west, in Wessex. No bloody Danes or Vikings here!

Us Saxons should stick together!

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, mudpatten said:

Yeah! Not the soft southern nancy boy Saxons! Although I personally claim heritage, at least in part, from the more civilised bunch of Saxon invaders who settled slightly to the west, in Wessex. No bloody Danes or Vikings here!

Us Saxons should stick together!

Sadly us East Saxons and our Angle cousins were tainted by the Dane Law.

Edited by Penelope

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True conversation from a few years ago down at Lymington.

Old boy -  "Dont believe all that that lot tell you, there a bit strange. They`re Jutes."

Over a thousand years since a band of Danish immigrants from Jutland settled in the area and the locals still remember!

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18 minutes ago, mudpatten said:

True conversation from a few years ago down at Lymington.

Old boy -  "Dont believe all that that lot tell you, there a bit strange. They`re Jutes."

Over a thousand years since a band of Danish immigrants from Jutland settled in the area and the locals still remember!

I have very fond memories of the area.

Spent a lot of time in my early teens (late 70's early 80's) in and around the Pylewell Park estate, beating, pigeon shooting, duck flighting, helping the keeper (the first in the country to hod his own shooting rights).

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Hi anyone know the " record "  for birds taken with a punt gun ?  In a single shot ? And where ?

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23 minutes ago, Dogs said:

Hi anyone know the " record "  for birds taken with a punt gun ?  In a single shot ? And where ?

You've more chance of getting my Labrador to paint the Mona Lisa than get that info out of punt gunners!

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Was there not a recorded instance of it somewhere  ?  Sure I read of it some years ago ?

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