Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, henry d said: Interesting, if the cost benefit is more valuable than justice what a wonderful world we live in🤔 No different to here then, in our 'justice' system you hold in such high regard. We will never know the truth in the USA it was always going to be that way. It was just sabre rattling by a failing political party with no chance of success. I truly hope the Democrats are punished at the ballot box for their complete disregard for Tax payer's money. Edited February 1, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: It was just sabre rattling by a failing political party with no chance of success. So what you've in effect saying is that as long as he has sufficient partisan support the president can do what he likes, illegal or not? Just because Biden is a sleazy piece of work - as is doubtless his son - it shouldn't mean that the president should get away with using the forces of government and a foreign state to further his own political agenda. Start allowing that kind of thing and you're into banana republic country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: No different to here then, in our 'justice' system you hold in such high regard. We will never know the truth in the USA it was always going to be that way. It was just sabre rattling by a failing political party with no chance of success. I truly hope the Democrats are punished at the ballot box for their complete disregard for Tax payer's money. ? How would you know? Justice should be pursued even with little or no chance of success that is the basis of our freedoms. If the people cannot see a difference between right and wrong what hope is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Retsdon said: So what you've in effect saying is that as long as he has sufficient partisan support the president can do what he likes, illegal or not? Just because Biden is a sleazy piece of work - as is doubtless his son - it shouldn't mean that the president should get away with using the forces of government and a foreign state to further his own political agenda. Start allowing that kind of thing and you're into banana republic country. No what I'm saying is what is the point in trying to prosecute someone, when effectively you are asking them to judge themself. If they had to foot the bill when they lost (which was inevitable), then this farce would never have happened! I'm also saying that I hope the US Tax payer punishes the Democrats (who were lose with their money), at the ballot box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 43 minutes ago, oowee said: ? How would you know? How would I know what? That the case had no chance, or that we will never know what happened? I think both are self explanatory. 45 minutes ago, oowee said: Justice should be pursued even with little or no chance of success Really??? So if I make an accusation against you with zero chance of success, we should move staight to trail. Even worse if you would effectively be the judge! Get real. Everyday cases against criminals are dropped, because they stand no chance of getting a conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Every day cases against criminals are dropped, because they stand no chance of getting a conviction. Which is wrong also, but the opposition to calling witnesses is criminal, Trump could (and should) have been removed from office if senators played fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, henry d said: but the opposition to calling witnesses is criminal, Well it clearly isn't. 11 minutes ago, henry d said: Trump could (and should) have been removed from office if senators played fair. It's politics. No one plays fair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: How would I know what? That the case had no chance, or that we will never know what happened? I think both are self explanatory. Really??? So if I make an accusation against you with zero chance of success, we should move staight to trail. Even worse if you would effectively be the judge! Get real. Everyday cases against criminals are dropped, because they stand no chance of getting a conviction. Impeachment of a President is hardly an every day criminal is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Well it clearly isn't. It's politics. No one plays fair! Where do you draw the line? Stuffing ballot boxes? Blackmailing opponents? Intimidation? If all these things are brushed off because 'it's politics', then your democratic system isn't worth the paper it's written on. Edited February 1, 2020 by Retsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Retsdon said: Where do you draw the line? Stuffing ballot boxes? Blackmailing opponents? Intimidation? If all these things are brushed off because 'it's politics', then your democratic system isn't worth the paper it's written on. I don't know, maybe trying to overturn a democratic vote, because you don't like the decision Or trying to impeach a president, because you don't like his politics Maybe wasting Tax payer's money on a fools errand Let's not fool ourselves here, this whole debacle was about trying to remove a democratically elected president, that they (not the majority) don't like. Nothing more!!! Edited February 1, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 21 minutes ago, oowee said: Impeachment of a President is hardly an every day criminal is it? Same principle. If the case is un-winnable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: Same principle. If the case is un-winnable. Of course its not. No one can be above the law. Look at the Russian poisoning. Saying we should ignore it is simply unconsciouable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, oowee said: Of course its not. No one can be above the law. Look at the Russian poisoning. Saying we should ignore it is simply unconsciouable. What??? So they know they can't win, but that doesn't matter because who cares they aren't paying for it Maybe we should just try everyone when a accusation it brought, regardless of the chance of securing a conviction or the cost. I mean who cares right, it's only Tax payer's money! Edited February 1, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, henry d said: Which is wrong also, but the opposition to calling witnesses is criminal, Trump could (and should) have been removed from office if senators played fair. The senators have played fair………. The house presented the articles of impeachment, and the senates job is to rule on what was presented. The fact that the Democrats presented a weak case is their own fault! If they were allowed to call more witnesses, it would just go on and on and on until their eventual failure costs are astronomical 🙄 3 hours ago, Retsdon said: So what you've in effect saying is that as long as he has sufficient partisan support the president can do what he likes, illegal or not? Just because Biden is a sleazy piece of work - as is doubtless his son - it shouldn't mean that the president should get away with using the forces of government and a foreign state to further his own political agenda. Start allowing that kind of thing and you're into banana republic country. You're talking like he's guilty and you know it for sure………. Maybe you should present your case🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retsdon Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, Newbie to this said: What??? So they know they can't win, but that doesn't matter because who cares they aren't paying for it What's the cost? In the general scheme of US government expenditure it must be microscopic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Retsdon said: What's the cost? In the general scheme of US government expenditure it must be microscopic. What has that got to do with anything! Oh it's microscopic, so it doesn't matter that they've wasted the Tax payer's money on a fools errand. Do you think the Democrats would have brought this futile case, if they had to foot the bill when they lost But it's OK it was only a microscopic amount of Tax payer's money, so it's fine Let's not fool ourselves here, this whole debacle was about trying to remove a democratically elected president, that they (not the majority) don't like. Nothing more!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wascal Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 17 hours ago, henry d said: A trial without any witnesses,is it a trial at all? The republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses during the inquiry . So they are just returning the favour 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB1 Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Having watched the whole farce from start to finish, I think this guy sums it up well……. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, wascal said: The republicans weren't allowed to call their own witnesses during the inquiry . So they are just returning the favour 😎 Go back through my posts, I never mentioned any side, it is wrong full stop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Newbie to this said: What??? So they know they can't win, but that doesn't matter because who cares they aren't paying for it Maybe we should just try everyone when a accusation it brought, regardless of the chance of securing a conviction or the cost. I mean who cares right, it's only Tax payer's money! Now you have lost me? It is/was unlikely that Trump would be impeached but it should be pursued. It is unlikely that the Russian poisoners would be brought to justice but they should be pursued. In your world non of this is worth doing. It is simply the right thing to do. Not sure where your proposal to carry out a persecution of others comes from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, oowee said: Now you have lost me? It is/was unlikely that Trump would be impeached but it should be pursued. It is unlikely that the Russian poisoners would be brought to justice but they should be pursued. In your world non of this is worth doing. It is simply the right thing to do. It wasn't unlikely it was an impossibility. Any sane person knew it would never happen. Hence the complete waste of US Tax payer's money. This whole thing was about trying to unseat a democratically elected president, that the Democrats have little to no chance of doing in an election. Nothing to do with justice, purely political. 47 minutes ago, oowee said: Not sure where your proposal to carry out a persecution of others comes from. These bits 3 hours ago, oowee said: 3 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Everyday cases against criminals are dropped, because they stand no chance of getting a conviction. Impeachment of a President is hardly an every day criminal is it? 2 hours ago, oowee said: 2 hours ago, Newbie to this said: Same principle. If the case is un-winnable. Of course its not. No one can be above the law Oh and this bit, surley it would be the right thing to do 47 minutes ago, oowee said: It is simply the right thing to do. Edited February 1, 2020 by Newbie to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoBodyImportant Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 01/02/2020 at 01:00, Retsdon said: What Clinton did is irrelevant. Trump used governmental resources and statutory powers granted to him as President of the United States to try and strongarm a foreign government into helping him with his domestic political campaign. If you think there's nothing wrong with that, then God help you. Two wrongs don't make a right and the Republican Senate is making a grave mistake here. Once the rule of law is lost it seldom comes back. There is no evidence of that. The star witness admitted that he never heard Trump say it. He said he knew I guy that over heard it but won’t say who. Joe Biden was caught on video tape talking about the crime. Supposedly Trump asked for an investigation on what Joe Biden got caught saying but there is zero evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Quote it shouldn't mean that the president should get away with using the forces of government and a foreign state to further his own political agenda. Start allowing that kind of thing and you're into banana republic country. A bit like Nicola Sturgeon and her obsession with independence for Scotland, whilst turning a blind eye to Health and Education. Quote No one can be above the law. Unless you are royalty or have Diplomatic Immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 I reckon it's important that Trump survives this to fight the election and I'll tell you why I think that. The Democrats in the USA have done a version of what labour did over here, i.e. a massive lurch to the left (some of it quite loony, just look at AOC). The Democrats need the same kind of trouncing in the GE this year that labour had here, so they realise how up their own behinds they are. Labour here haven't appeared to learn the lesson yet (but they probably will eventually, or will split) and the Dems need the same, i.e.; to reclaim the centre. The main reason why they are trying to stiff Trump through impeachment is because they are afraid they can't beat him at the ballot box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Very true. Brexit, Labour Lefties and Trump / Democrats. Both countries having too many people who want to overturn democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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