Dave Carrie

[Walker570]

22 minutes ago, sitsinhedges said:

I would love to try game shooting with any gauge but at £40 odd per bird it's not really for the hoi polloi is it?

I'm retired on a small pension and of pensionable age.  I shoot maybe 20 small days a year.  It is all down to how you want to spend your money and how many days you wish to take.  I would think that any person in full time employment could save sufficient for one or two small days a season.  I don't smoke or drink other than a medicinal glass of whiskey each evening.

I save my spare pennies and spend them on driven days.    I am in a small full driven syndicate with a chance of 7 or 8  50-60 bird days and a couple of smaller days, great facilities and lovely countryside.  £1250 a year  ....  £25 a week now tell me how much a packet of fags these days or another tattoo.  You spends your money as you wish, simple.   I am certainly not the hoi polloi .....

Edited December 26, 2019 by Walker570

[Dave at kelton]

1 hour ago, sitsinhedges said:

I would love to try game shooting with any gauge but at £40 odd per bird it's not really for the hoi polloi is it?

You can get shooting a lot cheaper than that. It’s just a matter of looking for small days or a shoot that does the odd boundary day and getting eight or ten of you together. Many people also share a gun to half the cost.

[Walker570]

I have had some great days at grimsthorpe this year.  Fully driven five or six drives, bag around 60 ish, eight guns, £295 including elevensies and tea and cakes afterwrards.  Not difficult there to ...as Dave says...share a gun and enjoy each others shooting , same as I probably get as much enjoyment out of seeing a fellow gun drop a good bird. That is what a days shooting should be about. A lot more to it than just killing things.

[Old farrier]

50 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

I have had some great days at grimsthorpe this year.  Fully driven five or six drives, bag around 60 ish, eight guns, £295 including elevensies and tea and cakes afterwrards.  Not difficult there to ...as Dave says...share a gun and enjoy each others shooting , same as I probably get as much enjoyment out of seeing a fellow gun drop a good bird. That is what a days shooting should be about. A lot more to it than just killing things.

£39.33 a bird 😊

[Lloyd90]

2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

I'm retired on a small pension and of pensionable age.  I shoot maybe 20 small days a year.  It is all down to how you want to spend your money and how many days you wish to take.  I would think that any person in full time employment could save sufficient for one or two small days a season.  I don't smoke or drink other than a medicinal glass of whiskey each evening.

I save my spare pennies and spend them on driven days.    I am in a small full driven syndicate with a chance of 7 or 8  50-60 bird days and a couple of smaller days, great facilities and lovely countryside.  £1250 a year  ....  £25 a week now tell me how much a packet of fags these days or another tattoo.  You spends your money as you wish, simple.   I am certainly not the hoi polloi .....

 

That sound's lovely.

I joined a small syndicate this year but there's just not that many birds, maybe 8-12 on a shoot day. Personally I was very lucky to have some good shooting on the odd day but other guns not so much. 

If you go on too small a day you might not get any shooting, then you have the cost of the day plus the opportunity cost where you could have gone elsewhere. 

 

I am considering trying to join one of the wild fowling clubs next year, I think they can offer shooting for very low cost. On one near me you can even shoot on Sundays, and I imagine it would be a good day out. 

My dog is a very good marker and retriever but I am not sure if he will ever be an amazing hunter, so considering that he may like it in a duck hide  

 

[Walker570]

Lloyd you are correct. If you are mainly interested in getting lead in the air and the other surroundings of a day shooting don't attract you, then you need to spend more money than I am willing to do.  What I have spare for my shooting, I like to spread over a whole season.  I could blow the lot on three or four silly big days when you cannot even remember that awesome bird you killed but not my scene, if it was I would go back to shooting clays.   When more able I used to have days on a small moor in Wales and a dozen of us would climb up there and walk all day for one or two grouse and the occasional snipe or woodcock, lolling back in the heather at lunchtime to eat sandwiches made the night before and pass a bottle of something, someone had 'made' from hedgerow berries. Drive home 90miles and collapse into dreams, totally whacked.  Those are still some of the finest shooting days of my life and I may not have even fired a shot.  I have been very lucky in life to have been invited to shoot on a few high class days where the bag would be in the hundreds but as good as they where they don't come close to those days in the Welsh Hills for sheer enjoyment.

[Perazzishot]

On 25/12/2019 at 14:37, captainhastings said:

Loads of younsters would love to have a go most most could never afford it. Cost a fortune just to have the right attire. On the plus side there are plenty of other ways of shooting thankfully. I am lucky to have access to pigeons, rabbits and even a few duck spots now and me and my mate have just as much if not even more fun

My 2 youngest daughters and wife (6 & 8 ) are coming for their 1st driven day next week at a prestigious estate they will be not adhering to any any perceived clothing etiquette except pink and and yellow wellies, they are there to enjoy themselves meet the other guns see the shooting and hopefully pick up some pheasants with our dogs.

Clothing later maybe but if you go for the 1st few times to any hobby you will be accepted in what you arrive in, our sport is no different. Your kids don'y arrive at karate, judo, tennis whatever in all the right gear.

Stop letting pre conceived prejudices letting kids getting involved! Kids do not need to be dressed in tweeds to enjoy a day with their parents on a days shooting!

Edited December 27, 2019 by Perazzishot

[welshwarrior]

9 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

My 2 youngest daughters and wife (6 & 😎 are coming for their 1st driven day next week at a prestigious estate they will be not adhering to any any perceived clothing etiquette except pink and and yellow wellies, they are there to enjoy themselves meet the other guns see the shooting and hopefully pick up some pheasants with our dogs.

Clothing later maybe but if you go for the 1st few times to any hobby you will be accepted in what you arrive in, our sport is no different. Your kids don'y arrive at karate, judo, tennis whatever in all the right gear.

Stop letting pre conceived prejudices letting kids getting involved! Kids do not need to be dressed in tweeds to enjoy a day with their parents on a days shooting!

Well put I’ve never seen an issue with kids and newbies turning up “incorrectly” dressed as long as the clothing suits the weather.  
 

many do dress to try to fit in 

[Old farrier]

10 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

My 2 youngest daughters and wife (6 & 😎 are coming for their 1st driven day next week at a prestigious estate they will be not adhering to any any perceived clothing etiquette except pink and and yellow wellies, they are there to enjoy themselves meet the other guns see the shooting and hopefully pick up some pheasants with our dogs.

Clothing later maybe but if you go for the 1st few times to any hobby you will be accepted in what you arrive in, our sport is no different. Your kids don'y arrive at karate, judo, tennis whatever in all the right gear.

Stop letting pre conceived prejudices letting kids getting involved! Kids do not need to be dressed in tweeds to enjoy a day with their parents on a days shooting!

I never have either 

I have found the kids are conscious  of fitting in and do make a effort borrowing a hat or cap wearing a tie or smart country shirt and a smile when the host thanks and compliments them for the effort they have made 

this usually results in them getting offers of outgrown country clothing and further invites especially if they have enjoyed the day 

 

[London Best]

12 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

My 2 youngest daughters and wife (6 & 😎 are coming for their 1st driven day next week at a prestigious estate they will be not adhering to any any perceived clothing etiquette except pink and and yellow wellies, they are there to enjoy themselves meet the other guns see the shooting and hopefully pick up some pheasants with our dogs.

Clothing later maybe but if you go for the 1st few times to any hobby you will be accepted in what you arrive in, our sport is no different. Your kids don'y arrive at karate, judo, tennis whatever in all the right gear.

Stop letting pre conceived prejudices letting kids getting involved! Kids do not need to be dressed in tweeds to enjoy a day with their parents on a days shooting!

Well said, sir! Good post. Correct on every point.

[wymberley]

"He has done a bit of pattern testing but I didn't see any penetration results and that is far more important than just getting a good pattern on a layer of paint or some paper."

Well, that's torn it - no pun intended.

For many, many decades when taken in the intended context, 'pattern kills' has until now been considered valid. For even longer it has been recognised that the velocity of lead shot is a simple matter of physics which can be relied upon to be reasonably accurate provided the extremes are avoided. Patterns on the other hand can not because of the fact that every shotgun barrel and every cartridge comination can - and usrually does -  perform differently and hence the need to check the pattern which if deemed satisfactory will kill as originally indicated.

[figgy]

When you see the shot pancaked to fly discs I'd say that's plenty of energy to kill a bird cleanly.

[Walker570]

14 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

My 2 youngest daughters and wife (6 & 8 ) are coming for their 1st driven day next week at a prestigious estate they will be not adhering to any any perceived clothing etiquette except pink and and yellow wellies, they are there to enjoy themselves meet the other guns see the shooting and hopefully pick up some pheasants with our dogs.

Clothing later maybe but if you go for the 1st few times to any hobby you will be accepted in what you arrive in, our sport is no different. Your kids don'y arrive at karate, judo, tennis whatever in all the right gear.

Stop letting pre conceived prejudices letting kids getting involved! Kids do not need to be dressed in tweeds to enjoy a day with their parents on a days shooting!

Agree...the worst sight I see is a father with a big ego problem with a kid at heel 5-6yrs old dressed up like an old game keeper.  HOWEVER, always make sure the kids have warm, waterproof clothing as I have also experienced crying, screaming children who are wet and freezing.

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

"He has done a bit of pattern testing but I didn't see any penetration results and that is far more important than just getting a good pattern on a layer of paint or some paper."

Well, that's torn it - no pun intended.

For many, many decades when taken in the intended context, 'pattern kills' has until now been considered valid. For even longer it has been recognised that the velocity of lead shot is a simple matter of physics which can be relied upon to be reasonably accurate provided the extremes are avoided. Patterns on the other hand can not because of the fact that every shotgun barrel and every cartridge comination can - and usrually does -  perform differently and hence the need to check the pattern which if deemed satisfactory will kill as originally indicated.

Hmmm   Well I agree but also disagree in a way.  I purchased a slab of #6 12 gauge once. They where labeled Game Specials or something like that from a well known maker.

I only went through one box before I relegated them to clays only. They 'printed' superbly but the hitting power and penetration was pathetic.  I have since had some 410 3 inch #6s and they were the same, so bad I actually took them apart and used the shot and primers in my homeloads.  My wife standing with me on a drive whilst I was shooting these and witnessed me hit about a dozen birds not that far away 20-25yrd over a woodland ride which I thought I had missed and then a picker up coming to me later and saying he had picked the birds 2-300yrds behind me and he had seen the shot go through them too.

 My home loads have been checked for both pattern and penetration and OK my system may not be technically perfect but I think if a #6 pellet at 35yrds will go through a  1/4 inch cardboard sheet plus the card target and then bury itself over the depth of the pellet in the marine ply backing, then that is near enough sufficent penetration for me.

[wymberley]

39 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Hmmm   Well I agree but also disagree in a way.  I purchased a slab of #6 12 gauge once. They where labeled Game Specials or something like that from a well known maker.

I only went through one box before I relegated them to clays only. They 'printed' superbly but the hitting power and penetration was pathetic.  I have since had some 410 3 inch #6s and they were the same, so bad I actually took them apart and used the shot and primers in my homeloads.  My wife standing with me on a drive whilst I was shooting these and witnessed me hit about a dozen birds not that far away 20-25yrd over a woodland ride which I thought I had missed and then a picker up coming to me later and saying he had picked the birds 2-300yrds behind me and he had seen the shot go through them too.

 My home loads have been checked for both pattern and penetration and OK my system may not be technically perfect but I think if a #6 pellet at 35yrds will go through a  1/4 inch cardboard sheet plus the card target and then bury itself over the depth of the pellet in the marine ply backing, then that is near enough sufficent penetration for me.

Yep, I've had the same problem with Grand Prix but I think that our exceptions prove the rule.

Also, I do feel your loss. Father used to load 2" and on a frequency basis when the new ones were issued neighbours from his and adjacent streets used to bring him their discarded telephone directories which saved him - not to mention many other loaders - a lot of faffing about.

[oldypigeonpopper]

hello, we had a saying years ago on what lead is required, 5 bar gate, much like those videos  

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Yep, I've had the same problem with Grand Prix but I think that our exceptions prove the rule.

Also, I do feel your loss. Father used to load 2" and on a frequency basis when the new ones were issued neighbours from his and adjacent streets used to bring him their discarded telephone directories which saved him - not to mention many other loaders - a lot of faffing about.

Pattern is just one aspect, important yes.  but speed is too but  so often ignored with the current rend away from velocity.

 Though true higher velocity gains proportionately less at range than its initial speed might indicate, speed is speed and 30fps is not a lot but it can put a load of any given weight or shot type back into the magic 600fps on target speed i stick to.

The good patterning loads were probably woefully slow and the on target  speed under 600fps by  50 to 100fps. Not in itself putting the load out of the game, but coupled with shot placement and birds perhaps being slightly further away than imagined down to angle of approach perhaps, and observations can start to get us  drawing wrong conclusions.

Like any recipe if it is going to turn out right we have to have all the right ingredients.

 Cast in no specific order suitable sized pellets  for species and range relative to the shot mass  Enough of those pellets to humanely despatch the species.

as a broad and yet quite practical minimum velocity of 600fps at the target.

Good shot placement/ marksmanship.  Get all these in place and if it flies it dies. snipe to greylag / tin  to TSS/ .410 to 4ga.

[ShootingEgg]

On 25/12/2019 at 15:52, Walker570 said:

Youngsters should firstly be introduced to some pigeon decoying/flighting, nothing better to hone skills and give great satisfaction with a great shot taken.  As said driven days cost money , lots of it, even a day for 60-70 birds small driven as being offered at Grimsthorpe at the moment are a fiver short of three hundred and start getting over 100 birds and you are talking £500 plus and add another £40 for each bird shot 

 

I work with BASC and do a day's shooting for young shots every season. Clays, game and a duck flight for £50 a head. Nothing better than seeing a youngster get their first pheasant or duck, their eyes light up... This year had a lad who'd never shot anything but clays, first ever love shoot day. Got three pheasant for three shots and 3 duck. He was like the Cheshire cat, grin from ear to ear.. 

So if other small shoots do this then there are ways for them to get in and at a reasonable price. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by ShootingEgg

[Walker570]

1 minute ago, ShootingEgg said:

I work with BASC and do a day's shooting for young shots every season. Clays, game and a duck flight for £50 a head. Nothing better than seeing a youngster get their first pheasant or duck, their eyes light up... This year had a lad who'd never shot anything but clays, first ever love shoot day. Got three pheasant for three shots and 3 duck. He was like the Cheshire cat, grin from ear to ear.. 

So if other small shoots do this then there are ways for them to get in and at a reasonable price. 

Excellent, well done.

[oowee]

2 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

I work with BASC and do a day's shooting for young shots every season. Clays, game and a duck flight for £50 a head. Nothing better than seeing a youngster get their first pheasant or duck, their eyes light up... This year had a lad who'd never shot anything but clays, first ever love shoot day. Got three pheasant for three shots and 3 duck. He was like the Cheshire cat, grin from ear to ear.. 

So if other small shoots do this then there are ways for them to get in and at a reasonable price. 

You are doing some good work there keep it up 

[ShootingEgg]

25 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Excellent, well done.

 

23 minutes ago, oowee said:

You are doing some good work there keep it up 

 

Still feel more shoots could and should  be doing similar, not necessarily the big corporates, but smaller syndicates could allow one day to show youngsters who want to be more involved, how a shoot is run, what work is involved, show them the beating, picking up, stand on peg and mentor them shooting. What's to low and how to pick the birds. Safety, not stealing the peg next doors bird etc.